Not a panacea

[JB]

As wonderful as the Kreg jig is, it is simply not a good substitute for fine joinery! Look up joinery tests in Fine Woodworking, would you rather build an heirloom piece of furniture with tried and true solid wood tenons or butt joints and screws?

[William Steinfeldt]

JB, I agree mortise and tenan philosophy, however, pocket joints have been used for years, I use both and even inlude biscuit's and dovetails. My wife's Christmas gift is a headboard put together with mortise and tenan and held together with wooden pins. I believe it is more in the quality of the work then the type of joint used. Case in point, the cattle barns, very old barns are assembled with mortise and tenan, barns of the 1940s are put together with nails, bolts, screws, cement. Is one better than the other, no, they are both the same in different ways, each having their pluses and minuses. But again it comes down to quality of the work. So yes I agree that fine joinery is mortise and tenan but I also believe there is a place for more modern technology. What did they use before glue, they used pitch and pine tar, there is room for the woodworker to develop their own style. I use mortise and tenan when appropriate, I also use the correct jigs and screws where the job call for it. Like the joints on the head board exposed for the world to see are mortise and tenan, but the toe kick under the cabinet is held on the pocket screws each has their place. The TV show, this whole house even documented the use of pocket screws whenever making bookcases on the show, I understand what you came from and I believe it was just poor choice of words, the intent was not to offend, and none taken. Best of luck with your woodwork.

[JB]

Here is my website again:

http://web.me.com/geppetto425/Site/Welcome.html

justin waldron said:

I always post photos of the things that I make, whether they turned out good or bad.  JB, when are you going to post some photos on your page?

[JB]

Thank you, I never intended to offend anyone, sometimes that's just the way I roll!

William Steinfeldt said:

JB, I agree mortise and tenan philosophy, however, pocket joints have been used for years, I use both and even inlude biscuit's and dovetails. My wife's Christmas gift is a headboard put together with mortise and tenan and held together with wooden pins. I believe it is more in the quality of the work then the type of joint used. Case in point, the cattle barns, very old barns are assembled with mortise and tenan, barns of the 1940s are put together with nails, bolts, screws, cement. Is one better than the other, no, they are both the same in different ways, each having their pluses and minuses. But again it comes down to quality of the work. So yes I agree that fine joinery is mortise and tenan but I also believe there is a place for more modern technology. What did they use before glue, they used pitch and pine tar, there is room for the woodworker to develop their own style. I use mortise and tenan when appropriate, I also use the correct jigs and screws where the job call for it. Like the joints on the head board exposed for the world to see are mortise and tenan, but the toe kick under the cabinet is held on the pocket screws each has their place. The TV show, this whole house even documented the use of pocket screws whenever making bookcases on the show, I understand what you came from and I believe it was just poor choice of words, the intent was not to offend, and none taken. Best of luck with your woodwork.

[JB]

Are you guys totally ignoring my posts and just seeing the parts that offend you? I do use the Kreg jig and I'm grateful for it. I made my own pocket hole jig long before the Kreg even came out! I just used it for part of the sofa table I made (did you see the pictures I posted???)  I do use it for utility stuff and some cabinet doors and shop jigs and certain furniture applications. It is my educated opinion however that it is totally nuts to make an entire table with pocket joints, secure stairs with pocket joints, bed rails with pocket joints or any other joint that traditionally should use a stronger joint (like a mortise and tenon) or is more esthetically pleasing.  I truly believe that traditional joinery will long outlast butt joints and screws.  Enough said, I'm opting out, you yahoos can argue amongst yourselves now.

Adam Adolph said:

Steve and Jay, I have to agree with both of you.  I appreciate it when a fellow woodworker is willing to stand up for the rest of us.

 

JB, My brother-in-law and a good friend of his and my wifes who happens to be an Industrial Arts teacher at a local High School have built some very nice furniture together that is not only nice to look at but also holds up very well.  I also know several PROFESSIONALS (cabinet makers, carpenters, Industrial Arts instructors, ect) that use these jigs and love them.  In my professional opinion it is YOU that does not know how to use the jig properly. 

[KregRep]

Just wanted to drop a quick reminder here for everyone to keep civility at the forefront of our minds.  We have an amazing community here, with woodworkers/DIY'ers from a wide variety of backgrounds and experience levels... and I think this thread demonstrates that rather clearly.  In such a diverse community, civility and understanding play a more important role.  In this forum we will agree, we will disagree... but as long as we do so in a civil manor and focus on the issues and not on our 'opponents', the discussions will be far more interesting and fruitful.  

 

Good luck, and good woodworking!

 

[Richard Hubert]

From reading most of the posts here I think we are all mostly in violent agreement - that Kreg screw joints work great -  they are fast and they are easy - for many different types of joinery.  BUT - different types of woodworking work best with different types of joinery, and Kreg screw joints provides a great choice for some people for types of wood for certain projects - just not for everything.

 

I have all the Kreg jigs, getting my 1st all metal jig years ago at a Woodworking Show.  Did not know quite how I was going to use it then but the concept looked good.  I have since used thousands of Kreg screws on many different joints (as well as also using other type of joinery as well).  One of the most useful joints I have found for Kreg screws are in fastening the ends of 2 x 4 (or 2 x 6) studs.  Rather than use toe-nailing (which is absolutely the worst fastening method ever devised) I found that using several pocket holes around the end(s) of the 2 x 4 worked far better - and that was even before Kreg started offering their longer screws.  As proof - when I was doing some remodeling on my 12 year old house, virtually all of the original 2 x framing where they had toe-nailed the ends in place were all split - either because the nail was so close to the end of the wood that it split at the time, or as a result of the lumber aging and drying out.

The worst example of this was seen in most of the ceiling joists which also served as the floor for my attic - rather than using joist hangers on the 2 x 6's they were simply toe-nailed to the main beams (apparently it was allowed by code at the time of construction !), and after 12 years they were barely held in place, with some of the nails having literally fallen out.  I used one of Kreg's stationary clamp-on jigs to drill pocket holes on these joists in place and screwed the ends of those joists tight to the main beams as well as adding joist hangers where I could. 

 

 

[John Bizianes]

Pocket screws have given me the confidence to get going with woodworking.  As I gain more experience, I will venture into more advanced joinery techniques.

[Steve Osterday]

I dunno... The Kreg Jig is the best thing since sliced meat as far as I'm concerned. I have been more inspired to build things since getting one than I ever have before. Maybe if I could afford all kinds of great tools for all the other kinds of joinery mentioned I'd have a different opinion. The KJ also makes making repairs really easy.

[Andrew Pensavalle]

You are absolutely right.  There is a place for the Kreg system and there are some projects that should only use traditional joinery.  But the usefulness of the Kreg system cannot be denied. 

[Greg J Powers]

Pocket holes forever :)

[Ken Darga]

Kreg Pocket Hole Joinery, has my vote.

Love it.

Easy

Fast

[ken weideman]