Kreg Owners' Community

Hello all. Needing some guidance. I am doing a backsplash, and am joining 2 boards cut at 45 degrees. How can I use my jig to join these boards?

Views: 4311

Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Hi J.Pree,  cutting miters angles and using a pocket hole can be done easily if you cut the angle and but that angle to a 90 degree stock.  Drill the pocket holes in the 90 degree piece and screw it into the miter.  The cut the toe of the miter off.  I wrote a post on this subject in Nov of 2011.  It is titles "turning angles in cabinets"  here is a portion of that post.  If you look it will explain a 45 degree angle.

Reply by Jay Boutwell on February 24, 2011 at 12:25pm Delete

My method of building angled cabinets is actually straight forward where I cut the required cabinet angle on one stick of the face frame and run it into a 90 degree joint using glue and pocket screws to secure the members.  When using 13/16 stock the cutting of the angle and running it into a 90 degree stock the toe on the angle piece grows depending on the cut angle.  To remedy this aline the inside pieces with other allowing the toe of the miter to extend out past the 90 degree piece secure the joint with the pocket screw and then sand and or cut the excess of the toe off. (refer to photo) .

When using 13/16 " stock  the toe to heel will grow 3/8" on a 45 degree miter.  A  22 1/2 degree miter the same stock grows less than 1/8 inch.  The method above shows a miter for the outside of a cabinet angle so the make the inside just reverse the 90 degree piece to place the screw side in towards the toe of the miter.  Aline in the same manner and then sand off the toe.    This places the screws to the inside of the face frame. On the ou...    Rule of thumb, run the screws into the mitered piece always boring the pocket holes into the 90 degree piece.........................................                                                    (more will follow)

Delete

(Angled cabinets continued:)    In dealing with an angled cabinets  the most ideal thing is to cut the miters and the 90 degree piece from the same stock of wood thus maintaining grain figures as well as color of wood.  The same applies in the sheet goods as well as wide lumber.  To make a miter turn in sheet goods or lumber mitered in the long grain cut, the same miter to 90 degree connection applies.  To cut a stile in a mitered turn, use stock that is wider than the finished size of the two stiles.  Cut the needed miter angle and then recut the waste from the stock into a 90 degree stock and attach the miter again allowing the toe of the miter to extend past the 90 degree stock and then sand or cut this off.  The photo below is a 45 degree outside miter that you would use on the back of a cabinet. A 22 1/2 degree is done the same manner and if you match the grain you will  make an almost invisable joint.  The best part of this, it is done with two saw cuts, no cleats or backing pieces.  It is flush on the inside and the outside and it is fastened with pocket screws and glue.  Again to make a inside piece, just reverse the piece so the screws are on the side opposite that of what you want to be visable.

 

Another advantage to the method is that the miter joint tricks the eye.  When you sand or cut the toe off at the face of the 90 degree piece and maintain that cut so that it is flush to 90 degree piece you  fool the eye into looking at the  corner where most expect the joint to be and it is not.  It is actually located about 3/8 of an inch from the actually joint on 3/4 or 13/16 stock.   You can also take advantage of this method by it allowing you the flexability to sand the corner round into a full bullnose style.  There is no length to how long this joint can be  and it does not matter what angle you make.  You cut the miter and screw it into the 90 degree piece and you have a almost invisable joint, secured with glue and pocket screws. 

 It might sound tricky but it is really simple once you get behind the saw and cut a few pieces.  You  learn the method very quickly and find that you can make difficult cabinets very easy with two cuts on the saw, the miter cut and a matching 90 degree.  Bore the pocket holes in the 90 degree piece and glue and screw the pocket screws into the miter.  The big thing to remember is bore the holes on the opposite side that you want to expose.  Need more information please ask.  This is one of the most difficult things to do in cabinet or furniture building.  It becomes easy and  simple using this method.

 

Great TIPS, Jay.

Thanks so much Jay for your tips - they will come in handy.  I am actually joining 2 pieces that have both been cut at a 45, and will be one continuous piece.  Any thoughts on this?  Thanks

Hi J Pree,

Depending on the width of the material and if you are joining the across the flats I would lean towards using a spline rather that trying to use the kreg jig.  If you do want to use the kreg screw if becomes more difficult to do and will require some careful drilling and short screws.  You will need to bore the pocket hole in the toe of the miter (pointed part is the toe) being sure that you do not place the pocket hole in a location where the screw point comes through.  The width will determine where or not that you can use a multiple screws in each piece as the bore length of the pocket hole may prevent this. 

This is the reason that I went to using the methods that I linked you to as it makes miters simple and they are also much better as the kreg screw and glue will work in all situations.  You will note that this system will move the glue line away from the corner and makes it hard to detect as most will look at the exact corner where they think the joint is going to be, when in fact it is as much as a 1/4 inch away depending on the miter angle and the material sizes.

Which ever method you use be a spline or a screw miter use glue and apply it to both surfaces and allow it to soak in and then re apply and assemble.  There a glue that is in the epoxy family that I use often when doing some of the glass mutton and mullions grids that is very strong and almost immediate setting that might be an option in the gluing part.  It is called 2p10 ( two parts resin and accelerant) and 10 seconds light clamp or hand pressure).  Rocklers also has one that is similar that is called "stick fast".  Both are expensive but then glue failures are too.

You may also be use to use the micro screw that Kreg makes too depending on the thickness of the wood.  Also just so know and if you work with a lot of 1/2" materials the Kreg micro jig is an excellent system.  Good luck and if you have additional questions please feel free to contact me.

Thanks Ken,  This the best method to use as a miter angle is hard to use screws in as you have to be very careful as to where you bore the pocket hole to prevent a  screw protruding out of the miter.  It is also a better way, as boring a hole in a miter where both ends have been cut,  causes you to have to place the miter in such a location in the material that the length of the thread depth into the wood changes and on occasions there is very little thread screwed into the wood.
 
Ken Darga said:

Great TIPS, Jay.

Jay, thank you for taking the time to offer your advice here. As always, your insight is greatly appreciated!

Jay Boutwell said:

Hi J.Pree,  cutting miters angles and using a pocket hole can be done easily if you cut the angle and but that angle to a 90 degree stock.  Drill the pocket holes in the 90 degree piece and screw it into the miter.  The cut the toe of the miter off.  I wrote a post on this subject in Nov of 2011.  It is titles "turning angles in cabinets"  here is a portion of that post.  If you look it will explain a 45 degree angle.

Reply by Jay Boutwell on February 24, 2011 at 12:25pm Delete

My method of building angled cabinets is actually straight forward where I cut the required cabinet angle on one stick of the face frame and run it into a 90 degree joint using glue and pocket screws to secure the members.  When using 13/16 stock the cutting of the angle and running it into a 90 degree stock the toe on the angle piece grows depending on the cut angle.  To remedy this aline the inside pieces with other allowing the toe of the miter to extend out past the 90 degree piece secure the joint with the pocket screw and then sand and or cut the excess of the toe off. (refer to photo) .

When using 13/16 " stock  the toe to heel will grow 3/8" on a 45 degree miter.  A  22 1/2 degree miter the same stock grows less than 1/8 inch.  The method above shows a miter for the outside of a cabinet angle so the make the inside just reverse the 90 degree piece to place the screw side in towards the toe of the miter.  Aline in the same manner and then sand off the toe.    This places the screws to the inside of the face frame. On the ou...    Rule of thumb, run the screws into the mitered piece always boring the pocket holes into the 90 degree piece.........................................                                                    (more will follow)

Delete

(Angled cabinets continued:)    In dealing with an angled cabinets  the most ideal thing is to cut the miters and the 90 degree piece from the same stock of wood thus maintaining grain figures as well as color of wood.  The same applies in the sheet goods as well as wide lumber.  To make a miter turn in sheet goods or lumber mitered in the long grain cut, the same miter to 90 degree connection applies.  To cut a stile in a mitered turn, use stock that is wider than the finished size of the two stiles.  Cut the needed miter angle and then recut the waste from the stock into a 90 degree stock and attach the miter again allowing the toe of the miter to extend past the 90 degree stock and then sand or cut this off.  The photo below is a 45 degree outside miter that you would use on the back of a cabinet. A 22 1/2 degree is done the same manner and if you match the grain you will  make an almost invisable joint.  The best part of this, it is done with two saw cuts, no cleats or backing pieces.  It is flush on the inside and the outside and it is fastened with pocket screws and glue.  Again to make a inside piece, just reverse the piece so the screws are on the side opposite that of what you want to be visable.

 

Another advantage to the method is that the miter joint tricks the eye.  When you sand or cut the toe off at the face of the 90 degree piece and maintain that cut so that it is flush to 90 degree piece you  fool the eye into looking at the  corner where most expect the joint to be and it is not.  It is actually located about 3/8 of an inch from the actually joint on 3/4 or 13/16 stock.   You can also take advantage of this method by it allowing you the flexability to sand the corner round into a full bullnose style.  There is no length to how long this joint can be  and it does not matter what angle you make.  You cut the miter and screw it into the 90 degree piece and you have a almost invisable joint, secured with glue and pocket screws. 

 It might sound tricky but it is really simple once you get behind the saw and cut a few pieces.  You  learn the method very quickly and find that you can make difficult cabinets very easy with two cuts on the saw, the miter cut and a matching 90 degree.  Bore the pocket holes in the 90 degree piece and glue and screw the pocket screws into the miter.  The big thing to remember is bore the holes on the opposite side that you want to expose.  Need more information please ask.  This is one of the most difficult things to do in cabinet or furniture building.  It becomes easy and  simple using this method.

 

Since you won't see the back of the joint, you can screw them together from the outside.  Take a look at this video by Chad Stanton -- he does it with mitered cabinet door frames, but the technique would be the same on the backsplash.  Glue and clamp your pieces together, then beef up the miter with screws running down the length of the backsplash, but driven into the backsplash from the bottom of the countertop piece.  

I took a look at the video and my conclusion would lead me to think that since this being end grain, which would suck in the application of the glue in the joint, and by that time a person would get set up the joint would be dry by the time the parts were assembled.  Then adding glue blocks to the outside and tightening up the joints with a clamp will even starve the joint more of glue from squeeze out from the clamp pressure.   From the amount of time it would take to add the paper backed blocks to the frame and then remove a person would be ahead and do just as good of a glue up job by adding glue, drilling and screwing in the screw in the first place. 


 
Russ Haynes said:

Since you won't see the back of the joint, you can screw them together from the outside.  Take a look at this video by Chad Stanton -- he does it with mitered cabinet door frames, but the technique would be the same on the backsplash.  Glue and clamp your pieces together, then beef up the miter with screws running down the length of the backsplash, but driven into the backsplash from the bottom of the countertop piece.  

Totally agree, Jay.  Whenever I do a mitered frame, I put glue on the end-grain, let it set for 20 minutes, then glue it again before assembling.  I've found that allowing the first application to soak in and set keeps more of the second application at the joint, which makes for a stronger glue joint.  I think the paper-backed blocks are a neat trick for doing flat, mitered panels, although I've had good luck with just using frame clamps or the miter glue blocks I made -- they give the same clamping area as Chad's glue blocks and can be clamped to the workpieces instead of glued.  But for J. Pree's purposes, my point in posting the video was to show him the option of screwing in from the outside of the joint, which I think would work well for his face-grain glue-up, doesn't need pocket holes, and where the workpieces are already cut at 45-degrees, which prevents him from using your (badass) method of using one square workpiece and another mitered to the total miter angle.  I don't know what to call that - a mitered joint where the two workpieces aren't cut at angles equal to half the total miter angle.  Maybe we should call it a "faux" miter, or even better . . . a "JB Miter Joint"!!!!    

Russ I understand what you were referring to and you do miters joints the way I do using a clamp and lots of glue allowing a layer to soak in and then applying a second applications.  Your idea of using a screw on the side of the miter would work well and would be strong joint.  I try to stay away from a true miter joint as much as possible because it is a weak joint in the first place.  Even using a spline it is not as strong as it could be like what is needed  in cabinet case work.  The joint can be made much stronger using a miter edge against a square stock edge.  It is a fast and sure joint and the pocket screw system can be used resulting in a strong joint.  To achieve what I like to see in cabinet work is why I like the method that I posted.  It allows you to make the joints with out the need of clamps and you do not have to wait for glue to dry before proceeding with further work on the job.

What I like about it is that it is quick and simple and very strong as you can use the pocket screw method and can be used on end to end and or edge surfaces.  I do this as it really looks nice when you need to build a cabinet that you want to turn an angle with.  With that method you can turn a cabinet in either direction , in towards you or away from you.  In doing face frames it works well as you can actually make it hard to see a joint as this method causes the actual joint seam to move away from where a person looking for the joint would expect it to be. So naturally they are looking where there is no joint but solid wood.

When you get a chance to try it ,please do so and I think you will be convinced as this being the better method of doing a miter joint .  A good test would be to take a piece of 3/4"ply and cut a 45 or a 22& 1/2 degree miter on it.   Then take another piece with a 90 degree angle and bore pocket holes in it and add glue if you wish.  Butt the two pieces keeping the inside (heel of the miter) flush with the inside piece.  Screw it together and then cut or sand off the extended tip of the mitered piece so that it is in the same plane line as the 90 degree piece.  In plywood there is one draw back if you intend on it being exposed to the eye it will leave a raw edge that can be difficult to stain.  There is a trick to fix this too.

What I like to do is to do a method of what I call "tattooing the piece" to make it take stain.  To do this I use a short piece of 1/2" hardwood about 7 or 8  inches long and insert a needle in the flat area near the end so the needle is stable, ( I push it through the piece until the eye of the needle is remaining exposed.) Using the needle make a series of rapid pokes into the raw surface causing small needle punctures in the raw edge. Do this in a rapid  tapping motion similar to a hammer.   Put enough in it that stain will fill the area evenly.  Apply the stain and then lightly sand off.  This can be a time consuming process but it works well. 

It will also works on extreme hard wood streaks where you are trying to get it to take an even stain. the punctures give the stain a bite and will not be just a surface stain that will wear off.

So here is how I chose to deal with my issue.  First I drilled pocket holes on the back side of the long miter.  I then glued and clamped the boards together, and once set, then put the screws in to strengthen the joint.  Looks great and thank you for all of your assistance.  I learned a ton and look forward to trying out some of the techniques shared.

J. pree, you made a good choice and I would had done the same. since you already had the material cut it was a good method of completing the project.    Hope you will post a photo when you get the project finished.  Take care and enjoy you work and work safely. 
 
J. Pree said:

So here is how I chose to deal with my issue.  First I drilled pocket holes on the back side of the long miter.  I then glued and clamped the boards together, and once set, then put the screws in to strengthen the joint.  Looks great and thank you for all of your assistance.  I learned a ton and look forward to trying out some of the techniques shared.

Reply to Discussion

RSS

Need Help?

For Technical Support, call 800-447-8638 or send a message. Reps are available Monday through Friday from 8am to 5pm (CST). 

Videos

  • Add Videos
  • View All

Product Reviews

Kreg Mobile Project Center

I just picked up my new Kreg Mobile Project Center Item #KWS1000.

Wow!  I set it up in my basement and it is great addition to my Kreg items.  I was viewing a video where a review on this fine product was being made, which prompts…

Continue

Posted by John Tomkinson on May 5, 2017 at 5:34am — 2 Comments

Handy jig to hold and push plugs in!

Takes 10 minutes to make this handy accessory for your Kreg gear! Home made plug pusher.

Posted by Dave Stanton on March 31, 2017 at 5:53pm — 1 Comment

© 2017   Created by KregRep.   Powered by

Badges  |  Report an Issue  |  Privacy Policy  |  Terms of Service

_