where are the KPHs?

[Alien]

iI have been reading this site for a few months now and its a great place for Kreg tool fans to gather and share ideas and projects and info about their Kreg tool experiences. It's great to see finished projects that where built with Kreg tools and how they applied the tool to their particular project. Its a wood working forum, we all get that, but what i don't get is seeing a gazillion pics of projects that don't even use a single KPH tool let alone a Kreg tool in there process of building their project. Maybe there should be separate photo section for none Kreg tool built projects? call me crazy but it feels like people are posting their projects just for show and tell and bragging rights rather then contributing to the forum, i mean after all it does say "Kreg jig owners community" at the top of every page does it not?

Thats my 2 cents, so if i offended anyone i apologize in advance and if i am totally off base then the forum moderator can feel free to delete this post. I just feel that if your gonna have a forum on a particular subject then you don't mind seeing a few random pics of something related, but posting everything you have on your hard drive and your digital camera seems a tad extreme.

[KregRep]

Kevin said:

I've been coming to this site for several months now myself...

Kevin, great post... a lot of important points here. I think your comment about this being a 'community' first and foremost is right, and the content here should really just be organically created. The very reason we've created the 'Miscellaneous' and 'General Woodworking' sections of the forums is in this spirit. Kreg Jig owners have a lot in common... not just the Kreg Jig itself. This site is a community for discussing and sharing ALL of these things.

This is a great discussion to have, and will possibly lead to some changes in the site... someone already mentioned changing the format of the site to be more of a "Kreg Owners' Community" instead of the "Kreg Jig Owners' Community"... this is something we have been considering. Possibly more forum categories should be created, etc. Keep up the great suggestions, everyone! Your insight has been invaluable as I work to make this community as interesting/educational/entertaining as possible!


Kim C said:

I do appreciate however, when a builder specifies how in the project pocket hole joinery was used...

I think for beginners this is especially important. Projects are so much less intimidating if you can just break them down into small/simple steps! However, if members have specific questions about a project, the 'comments' function is perfect for this.




DAVID CZUPRYN said:

I own the first made Kreg Jig,and it serves its purpose. That being said,my shop does NOT revolve around this tool !! This tool,like any other tool,compliments the shop. BUT,IT'S NOT THE ENTIRE SHOP.

Good points, Dave. One thing - I don't think anyone is saying that these 'alternative' projects shouldn't be uploaded...or that the Kreg Jig is the only joinery technique members should use... the thread starter seemed to simply wanted to make the point that it can be confusing at times from a beginner's perspective to see the projects mixed together, and that it might be useful to have a section of the site where the non-Kreg projects can reside. He seemed a bit concerned that the 'educational' part of the community was being a bit overridden by the need to show past projects. I think the majority here seem to disagree, but it's certainly a valid point to discuss. Thank you very much for your insight and opinion in this matter!

[Veronica]

As long as the pictures posted are of woodworking projects I really don't have an issue with what is posted. But, I agree that we should duly note if a project was not created using any type of Kreg product especially the Kreg Jig. Other than someone's profile pic, my opinion is that all pics posted should be woodworking projects of some kind. There are other forums and/or communities for us to post pictures of our weekend vacation to the beach.

Please let it be known that this topic has not been something that has ever bothered me so I'm only voicing my opinion because it is a topic for those in this community. If there is a picture I don't want to look at...I don't look at it. I did not join this site to try and regulate what others do. I get from this site exactly what I need which is guidance, assistance, ideas and, most importantly, encouragement.

Thanks to Kim, Jenny, Phil, James and all others that have helped and encouraged me along the way. I appreciate you!!!

[William Frederick]

As a new woodworker who bought the Kreg Jig to make projects using it because of its ease of use versus other joinery methods that seem more complicated. I can turn out a project that I did not think I could make. Now after making my first cabinet for my miter saw, I am ready to make a coffee table using the Kreg Jig method. Thanks to the projects using it and the pictures I already have a good start. So I like to see projects preferably made using the Kreg Jig that help give me ideas. Better pictures of the projects would be helpful.
That said, it is still nice to see the other projects even though they were made in a different manner. It might be good to have an album area setup for alternative joinery. Some of the people making projects, sometimes different ways are obviously people with more skill than me, but who still use their Kreg at times have lots of ideas and knowledge to offer all of us. As long as people do not get carried away I do not mind.

[Kevin P. Thornton]

I personally use many different Kreg products while making my projects and I don't feel it's necessary to state that I used this specific tool while making it. People will usually send private messages to each other if they would like a more specific explanation of how something was built and with what tools as well. I don't feel it would be necessary to have a separate folder for kreg or non-kreg products, and even if people post non-kreg products I personally enjoy seeing them. Everyone on this site are all good people and to some extent I believe people do enjoy bragging about what they made and showing it off. I don't think there is anything wrong with it either, it's always nice to show something your proud of to other people who can appreciate it and everyone has something positive to say about them as well. As Joe Dirt would say "Just keep on keepin on". Can't make everybody happy but I am.

[Larwyn]

Why worry about it? Unless following specific plans with step by step instructions (which I find quite boring), no two people would use exactly the same procedures and tools to complete a project. I enjoy looking at all the projects, if I decide to build a version of one of them, I will then adapt it to work with my skill level, methods and the tools and materials available to me. I may even decide to build all or part of it with metal even though the original design was executed entirely in wood. For me building any project whether wood, leather, metal or dirt is all about creativity and imagination, not following "connect the dot" instructions to make an exact copy of someone else's creation.

[Kevin]

Amen.

Larwyn said:

Why worry about it? Unless following specific plans with step by step instructions (which I find quite boring), no two people would use exactly the same procedures and tools to complete a project. I enjoy looking at all the projects, if I decide to build a version of one of them, I will then adapt it to work with my skill level, methods and the tools and materials available to me. I may even decide to build all or part of it with metal even though the original design was executed entirely in wood. For me building any project whether wood, leather, metal or dirt is all about creativity and imagination, not following "connect the dot" instructions to make an exact copy of someone else's creation.

[Jens Jensen]

You no I posted a couple beds and one of them I stated it was done before I had a KJ system I cant wait to see a bowel turned and say it was a KJ project that's where rubber meets the road,Good building to all

[T Corey]

Greetings to all: I think things are fine they way they are. I also enjoy looking and hearing about all the projects. I don't particapate in any other site, but I do look at some for ideas. This community feels like it is down home to me. All of my community 'neighbors' have all been wonderful to me and all I see is positives. Like others, I don't use my KHJ for all of my projects, but theres this little voice in my head saying 'How can I use my KHJ to make this?' I grew up and still live in the middle of no where, but my neighbors and I all take care of each other and help each other out when ever there is a need. Thats how I feel about my 'Kreg Community Neighbors'. This site has been a real blessing to me and my family. We have a really good thing here and I hope it continues to grow and be here for my grand kids to be a part of. My whole family sets together at times around the computer and looks at the project pictures to figure out our next project. Since my early retirement, the cold weather outside keeps me either in my shop or on this site! No boredom yet! God Bless you all. Just my two cents. T

[Garry Graves]

Kreg Tool Company is a company of 'inclusion' and not exclusion. There are not only the market leader in pocket hole joinery...there a market leader in character too. --gg

KregRep said:

Very interesting thread. First off, thanks for creating it, "Alien Digital Ink". I think it's an important issue for the community to at least discuss! First of all, let me explain the purpose of this community website for the record... as it says on the homepage: "A friendly social community for Kreg Jig owners to share stories, project ideas, tips, and tricks for using their Kreg Jig." So far, I think everyone agrees that the site has been a huge success and has turned into a great resource for Kreg Jig owners everywhere! We're very proud of what the site has become only a few months after starting it, and very appreciative to all members that have participated and told their unique Kreg Story for everyone else to learn from... that's really what it's all about. I think that wherever this thread ends up going... this is the most important thing to remember.

Now, that being said... let me give you my thoughts and concerns regarding the issue at hand.
1) We have no interest in 'ruling' this community with an iron fist. Unless things change dramatically for the worse, we wont' be deleting projects simply because they were not built with a Kreg product or because it does not fit a extremely narrow view of 'relevant to the community'. We really want members to feel like this is an open community where they can share and discuss anything they choose.
2) Our primary hope for this site was that it would INSPIRE new Kreg Jig owners to start building. To provide them with project ideas, helpful tips, and advice directly from more experienced Kreg Jig owners. Because of this, obviously the most effective/interesting/valuable projects will be those built with a Kreg Jig which has photos showing how exactly it was built.
3) The concern that many non-Kreg projects are being posted is a real valid one. From our perspective, it is ok that there are projects here that aren't built with the Kreg Jig, (they're still very inspirational/educational) but it would be beneficial if these projects were described as such. This is a somewhat 'exclusive' community as it's for individuals who own a Kreg Jig, and as the thread starter and Anthony mentioned, it's slightly confusing for some when you're trying to figure out how something was built with Pocket-Holes, when there are no photos of the 'business side' of the project, and you end up finding out that it wasn't actually even built with a Kreg Jig! This can be frustrating.
4) The forums might be a good example of the balance we should shoot for... there are something like 6 or 7 sections devoted to the Kreg Jig, and a couple devoted to 'Miscellaneous' or 'General Woodworking'. These are essential parts of the site, but are balanced accordingly.


So, what's the best way to move forward?
1) I think we can all agree that it would be great if members posting projects could make it a bigger effort to show post photos of the underside ('business side') of their projects so that other members can learn from how the project was built and assembled.
2) I think we can all also probably agree that it would be best if the vast majority of the projects posted were in fact built with a Kreg Jig to limit any confusion to less-experienced members. As for the projects not built with the Kreg Jig, it would be great if this fact could at least be addressed by the poster so that excess confusion can be mitigated.
3) How does this happen? We will not be 'forcing' this to happen, obviously. My hope would be that it happens more organically... I think if the most involved and frequent visitors of this community (that's probably YOU if you've read this far already) would be willing to try and make this the 'public norm' by doing so in their own posts, by commenting and asking questions of other members (as I did in this instance) accordingly, by starting threads like this, etc. It would quickly become the 'new norm'. What we need is a few leaders to step up and ask members posting projects to share more photos of the underside, to specify how it was built, etc. I think with your help, we can make this community more useful, more user friendly, and full of more relevant content... because that's what it's all about! Being a great resource for all types of Kreg Jig owners or future owners!

Thanks to everyone for sharing your thoughts on this topic! I'd love to hear more of your opinions... as you're the ones who use the site on a daily basis. How do you think the 'balance' of the content has been so far on the Kreg Jig Owners' Community? Is it confusing when you can't figure out how a project was built? Are there too many non-Kreg Jig projects... or not enough? Are the steps I laid out above logical? Do you agree with the course of action?

Thanks to everyone for discussing this issue! Just more evidence that we've got some of the best community members out there!

Until next time, good luck and good woodworking!
-KregRep