Spanish Style railing system

[Frank Allain]

Would anyone know how to calculate the layout for spindles within a fence section.  I'd like to use a Spanish fan style within a rectangular section that is 45 11/16" wide and 35" high.  I don't know if there is a simple equation or method to do this?  If anyone can offer any help I'd appreciate it.  I'll try to load a picture to show what I'm trying to do.

[Ken Darga]

Frank,

I'll get back to you with the details, as soon as I can find my file, for this design.

[Frank Allain]

ok, that would be great Ken....... I've tried to sketch it out 4 or 5 times so far.  I'm getting close

but I'm sure there's an easier way.  If you find something I'd be grateful

[Ken Darga]

Frank,

I’d make a full-scale layout on a sheet of 1/4 or 1/2'' plywood.

The width of the plywood sheet, the size to fit between the posts.

The height of the sheet so as to be the dimension, from under the top (cap) horizontal member, down to a distance above the deck surface or ground level.

(check with your local codes, for the lower rail spacing---from under the rail to the deck surface.  Some local codes require 2’’.  Rational: so a youngster can’t get their head caught in the gap).

More spacing is better, so as to allow more space for snow removal---push the remaining snow under the lower rail.

 

Divided the number of desired spokes at even angled intervals.

Each spoke can be butted, side-by-side,  in the bottom section area, and fanned out at the top.

Measure and mark each spoke length, then cut the angles at the top and bottom of each spoke.

Sandwich the spokes between the horizontal and vertical members.

Leave the spokes open at the bottom, so as to allow for drainage, between the spokes.

Make up 1 set, to use as a template. 

Hope this helps.

[james wilhelm]

FRANK ,  I agree with every thing stated  above by KEN ,  I was just wondering  if the 35 " measurement  was from the top of the rails to the deck  and what size  spindles are you going to use , from the picture they look like 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 , is this correct , JIM !!

[Ken Darga]

I'd make the balusters (spokes) from 2x2 (1 1/2 x 1 1/2),

top rail 2x4

the horizontal members from 1x3 stock

the vertical members, on the ends, 1x2 stock.

These sizes will give it a balanced appearance.

I'd make it 36'' from the deck surface to the top of the 2x4 top rail.

 

[Frank Allain]

Thanks for the reply Ken.  I'll be using cedar for this project; 2x4 for the top and bottom rail and 4x4 for the uprights or newel posts, with 3/4 x 3/4 for the spindles or balustres.  I thought there might be a formula for calculating the angles and spacing.  I plan on starting from  dead centre of each panel and working left and right from there with the spindles using 4" spacers at the top between and 1/2" at the bottom.  I'll try to include a rough drawing I've made up, (somewhat to scale)  This is for an indoor area so snow and water is not an issue.  The measurement between the lower side of the top rail and the top of the bottom rail is 35" with the space between the floor and the bottom of the top rail at 4".  Height from floor to top of top rail is 42" which is the local minimum for a balcony handrail.  The picture I posted was a sample I found on the net, so I can make a few changes for this job.  I thought of using 3/4 x 3/4 thin wall steel tube but I don't know about cutting the angles (even though I have a metal chop saw) 

[Frank Allain]

thanks for the reply Jim.......

i'm going to use 3/4 x 3/4 spindles.........Home Depot sells them that size with their cedar decking stock. the height i've posted in my reply to Ken.  nice project pictures you've posted Jim.
 
james wilhelm said:

FRANK ,  I agree with every thing stated  above by KEN ,  I was just wondering  if the 35 " measurement  was from the top of the rails to the deck  and what size  spindles are you going to use , from the picture they look like 1 1/2 x 1 1/2 , is this correct , JIM !!

[Ken Darga]

Frank,

A formula that can be used is “rise over run’’ method.

The slope is described by the ratio of the "rise" divided by the "run" between two points on a line.

 

 

To find the length of the slope, use “A-squared’’ for the rise, “B squared for the run, and

“C squared’’ for the slope length.

To find “C” (length of slope), take the ‘’square root’’ of the sum of ‘’A squared’’ plus ‘’B squared’’.

 

¾ x ¾ cedar balusters will not be strong enough to suffice in a balcony application.

An inadvertent impact, someone falling against it, will cause fracturing of the material---cedar splits without too much force.

A sharp pointed broken end, could result in bodily injury.

(Dried cedar will snap with a lot less force).

 

I’d suggest making some sample test pieces,  cut to 2, 3 and 4 ft lengths.

Place each piece at approx 30 degree incline---apply a force, centered on the test piece.

A force with steady pressure and an impact load force.

Measure the deflection---and record the force when the fracture occurred.

Make test pieces in various grain positions---against the grain and with the grain of the wood.

Record the data.

Compare the results.

This test will give you a good visual, for your decision, for your construction.

A simple test setup could be a simple brick, placed on its long edge---position one end of the strip on the brick, and apply force with your foot.  Observe how easily the cedar strip snaps. 

Then think of this, as if someone falls against the cedar strips.  Someone is going to get injured.

 

Stronger balusters would be to use 1x2 cedar stock ---with the narrow edge facing outward.  The strips can be ripped from 1x cedar boards—don’t use any sections that contains a ‘’knot”.  The section with a knots will fracture easily.

Enjoy your planning and build. 

[Frank Allain]

hi Ken

thanks for the info but I'd have to go back to school to use that formula and I'm too old for that.

I think I'll stick with my hand sketch and go from there.  As mentioned in my previous post I'll

probably go with 3/4" square steel tube for the additional strength, and it's only  $ .10 cents a

foot more......... have a good one.

 

 Ken Darga said:

Frank,

A formula that can be used is “rise over run’’ method.

The slope is described by the ratio of the "rise" divided by the "run" between two points on a line.

 

 

To find the length of the slope, use “A-squared’’ for the rise, “B squared for the run, and

“C squared’’ for the slope length.

To find “C” (length of slope), take the ‘’square root’’ of the sum of ‘’A squared’’ plus ‘’B squared’’.

 

¾ x ¾ cedar balusters will not be strong enough to suffice in a balcony application.

An inadvertent impact, someone falling against it, will cause fracturing of the material---cedar splits without too much force.

A sharp pointed broken end, could result in bodily injury.

(Dried cedar will snap with a lot less force).

 

I’d suggest making some sample test pieces,  cut to 2, 3 and 4 ft lengths.

Place each piece at approx 30 degree incline---apply a force, centered on the test piece.

A force with steady pressure and an impact load force.

Measure the deflection---and record the force when the fracture occurred.

Make test pieces in various grain positions---against the grain and with the grain of the wood.

Record the data.

Compare the results.

This test will give you a good visual, for your decision, for your construction.

A simple test setup could be a simple brick, placed on its long edge---position one end of the strip on the brick, and apply force with your foot.  Observe how easily the cedar strip snaps. 

Then think of this, as if someone falls against the cedar strips.  Someone is going to get injured.

 

Stronger balusters would be to use 1x2 cedar stock ---with the narrow edge facing outward.  The strips can be ripped from 1x cedar boards—don’t use any sections that contains a ‘’knot”.  The section with a knots will fracture easily.

Enjoy your planning and build. 

[Leslee]

 Frank, See if your wife has a fan or fold paper in an accordian style. You could also make a large protractor to help you with the radius and the 4 to 5 inch spacing between spindles. I hope this gives you some ideas what to use to help with your project. Draw the project on paper and build it to scale for visual look before cutting any pieces of wood for the panel. That sure helped me in my big project.

[Frank Allain]

thanks for the info Leslee.......  I have already sketched it out on paper

to scale and I think I have it figured out.  As well, I've decided to use

3/4" square steel tubing instead of cedar for the balustres.  I'm sure

all will work out well in the end.
 
Leslee said:

 Frank, See if your wife has a fan or fold paper in an accordian style. You could also make a large protractor to help you with the radius and the 4 to 5 inch spacing between spindles. I hope this gives you some ideas what to use to help with your project. Draw the project on paper and build it to scale for visual look before cutting any pieces of wood for the panel. That sure helped me in my big project.

[David Dean]

Why cant you all use a cheater block when I worked for the old man he would have use boys to build the frame and start in the middle mark the buttom and the top and cut and scerw and then you use your cheater block and go down one side at a time.But we was making 4"x8" frame's and 8" cheater blocks.