Picture frame measurements and rules

[Debora Cadene]

What are the rules when building a picture frame, using 45* cuts? The inside measurements vs outside measurements vs size of wood you are using to make the frame.?  Wierd question and I am quite sure I've worded it wrong, but mabey it makes sence????

[james wilhelm]

Hi Debora ,  I have made picture frames  from 4 " x 6 " to 30 " x 36 "  , first you want to determine how wide you want your  frame boards to be , kreg recommends 3 " if you are using kreg screws !  I use a lot of 1 1/2 " or 2 1/2 "  wide boards  and use biscuits to put them together! After I cut them how wide I want them  , I go to the table saw and cut the rabbet , 5/16 " x 5/16 " for the pic. and the glass !  Then I cut a 45 degree on one end , If you are making a 8 " x 10 " frame , on the 10 " side  I measure from the 45 degree cut on the inside of the rabbet 10 1/16 "  and mark, make a 45 degree line to that mark from the top of the board  and do the same for the 8 " side of the frame , 8 1/16 "  and cut your other 45 degree cut  ! After you cut the rabbet , lay the board with the rabbet face down on your miter saw to make the first 45 degree cut , makes it easier to measure and cut your second 45 degree cut ! Hope this makes sense to you , also sending a pic , have a good day and hope this helps , JIM !!!

[Debora Cadene]

Um...whats a Rabbet?

[Debora Cadene]

The wood I have on hand for this particular frame,is 1x2. what I've done so far, was make the first 45* cut, then measured the top of that to draw the end line. My frame is "supposed to be 8.5 x 11" on the inside.  What I learned yesterday was I take the width of what ever I am cutting and add that to the inside measurement to get the measurement of the long side of each board, SO 8.5" plus 3" is 11.5".  I need two of these.  What I am finding the most difficult or confusing for me, is where to put that pencil mark. I have one end cut, so I put the tape measure on there, make a mark at 11.5. But its on the top of the board and I need to lay this board down on its flat side.  I don't seem to get the angle right by extending that pencil mark to the side.  (did that make sence???) AND THEN, after I've shaved a little off the first piece because it was a little too long, NOW I need to make another exactly the same.  Here's the problem.  It doesn't work for me.  I line up the ends, and close my eyes and feel with my fingers until I can't feel the seems in between both places.  Then I hold them together, and cut the second one with the first boar on top.  Its still not the same.  See my problem here???  Getting two of them exactly the same just isn't happening for me.  Then I want to add another frame around the first one, but with it laying on the widest part over top of the other frame...still cutting to a 45.  I got the idea from Ana White.  yes, I am experiencing technical difficulties, because I've never seen one make and I am winging it, all the while I'm sacraficing perfectly good wood.  

Now I need more wood.

[John Schaben]

Hi Deborah - the formula for the length of the sides would be the length of the object, plus 2x the width of the stock, minus 2x the width of the rabbet (the little relief around the inside edge of the frame that holds the object, glass, etc). There are two conditions that must be met for good miter joints. First, all the ends must be exactly 45° and opposite sides must be exactly equal.

Sounds like the second condition is what is giving you trouble. Personally, I use a power miter saw and use stops to ensure I can repeat the cut. Same can be done on a table saw with a miter gauge or a sled. If doing by hand it is a little trickier. Might be able to cut all the sides to proper length and then clamp the opposite sides together so you are cutting both sides at the same time would work for you.

Good Luck.

[james wilhelm]

Hi Debora ,  first of all is the size of the picture you are framing  8 1/2 " x 11 " on the out side edges ?   Are the boards you are using  1 " x 2'  or 3/4 " x 2 " and do you have a table saw ?   A rabbet is a grove or notch  that is cut on the inside of the  2" wide board before you cut the 45 degree cuts , you can use a table saw or router to do this, 5/16 " x 5/16 " !  After you cut the rabbet  turn the board over with the rabbet  face down on your  miter saw and cut the first 45 degree  cut on the one end !!  Then  measure as per drawing and make a mark  at 8  9/16 " and make your other 45 degree mark !!   I would cut the long boards at 15  1/2 " and the short ones at 13 "  to start !!!  Sending you this pic. and will send a pic . tomorrow that Is full scale , with all the measurements , hope this helps and any ?,s please contact me , JIM !!!

[Ken Darga]

Debora,

Make sample test pieces from scrap material.

Practice making miter cuts, whether by hand or with a power tool.

Rabbets can be made on a table saw or router table.

Being new to making picture frames is a challenge.

To be successful at making picture frames, one needs to learn how to build the frames.

There's more to it than just making miter joints and a rabbet.

Framing is something woodworkers tend to shy away from.

It may be fear of damaging an irreplaceable piece of art or of putting less-than-perfect miter joints on display. Frames tend to get scrutinized because they are the vehicles for displaying art; and because art is critiqued up close, the frame will be, too.

A rabbet is a dado that is cut into the edge of the face of the stock.

A rabbet depth and width, in the picture frame needs to accommodate the glass, the matt, the picture material thickness, the points, brads, or glazing points, or "S" clips.

[Debora Cadene]

Hi James...the inside of the frame would be 8.5 x 11, so its the size of a piece of paper,  with the frame around that. The 1x2's are 3/4 x 11/2.   (this is the link to the frame I am trying to make, but with different measurements....  http://ana-white.com/2009/12/plans-barnwood-frames-1-and-10-minutes...  ) Then I ran out of wood, so will pick some more up this morning.

Then I went to the barn and got a piece of barn board and would like to make just a plain one with out the top like the first one.......but its probably close to 5 3/4" wide, and  I forget the depth of the wood. i'll hold off till I get further instructions on that one. I'd like to make that to fit the 8.5 x 11 and I know I need the ledge or rabbet in there...but I don't have a tool for that yet.  I have the dewault miter chop saw, and I "thought" I had a table saw in the barn, but I don't think it working too good.  My thought was to take a sample piece of wood and make that groove in the barn board, but I clearly don't know how to use the saw yet, because what I thought would happen and what actually did....were two different things.  Would a hand router work? i don't have one of those either, but mabey I could find one.

[Debora Cadene]

Ken, where can I go to get started on basic picture frame building instructions.  I don't want to just follow along, I'd like to actually understand what I am attempting to do.  

[John Schaben]

http://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-Custom-Picture-Frames/

This is kind of lengthy and pretty detailed, maybe more than you are looking for but all the steps are there, and then some.

[Ken Darga]

Debora,

When I first started making picture frames, cutting trim, and the like, and didn't have the power tools,

I found a pecision miter box and saw very useful.

 

I still use it today, in lieu of a miter slide saw, when only having to make a few on-the-job-site tasks.

[james wilhelm]

Hi Debora , is this what you have in mind to build , sending you three pics. , the first is the back showing the rabbet , the second Is the front  and the third is a drawing I made with the measurements , when I cut the rabbet I  have added an extra 1/16 " bigger then the pic. you want in put in the frame !!!  You can cut the rabbet with a router  and if you get the table saw working , be careful , have a good  day , hope this helps , Jim !!

Debora Cadene said:

Hi James...the inside of the frame would be 8.5 x 11, so its the size of a piece of paper,  with the frame around that. The 1x2's are 3/4 x 11/2.   (this is the link to the frame I am trying to make, but with different measurements....  http://ana-white.com/2009/12/plans-barnwood-frames-1-and-10-minutes...  ) Then I ran out of wood, so will pick some more up this morning.

Then I went to the barn and got a piece of barn board and would like to make just a plain one with out the top like the first one.......but its probably close to 5 3/4" wide, and  I forget the depth of the wood. i'll hold off till I get further instructions on that one. I'd like to make that to fit the 8.5 x 11 and I know I need the ledge or rabbet in there...but I don't have a tool for that yet.  I have the dewault miter chop saw, and I "thought" I had a table saw in the barn, but I don't think it working too good.  My thought was to take a sample piece of wood and make that groove in the barn board, but I clearly don't know how to use the saw yet, because what I thought would happen and what actually did....were two different things.  Would a hand router work? i don't have one of those either, but mabey I could find one.

[Debora Cadene]

OMG!!  James, I can't believe you went out and made a frame so I could see what you were talking about.  That is awesome!!!!  Ok...couple of questions.  

1. do i have to put the rabbets on the back if I don't plan on putting in a piece of glass?  I plan on cutting the thin wood I am using as the middle for my picture,  to just fit into the back. I've left enough room behind he frame so its flush.

2. when you are cutting  your pieces, it looks like your wood just continues onto the next piece with the grain. Have you sacrificed a cut to make sure the next one carries on?

3. I don't understand why you make the wood an extra 1/16.

and a favor....next time you make a cut and have to do the rabbet...can you take a picture of how the wood sits in your table saw to get that cut, or the router, which ever you used to make this.

thank you again for all the time you took out to make this so much easier for me to put together.  I really, really appreciate it.

so sorry it took this long to get back to you for this...I have been plowing one of my fields, so haven't had much time for the computer.

and John...thank you for the link to more reading for me. I will be going through it once I get a little more "me" time.