Which is the better choice, the 3" or the 5" blade stabilizer? Appreciate any insight.
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Stephanie,
I use a 3" dia size stabilizer, when using thin kerf blades on my table saws.
I obtained it from Rockler Woodworking & Tools.
A 5" is too large for my 10" saw. If I used it, I would only have an effective cutting depth of 2-1/4", and less if the blade is tilted 45 degrees.
Without a stabilizer, when using thin kerf blades, I get about a 1/16" wobble, until the blades reaches full rpm.
I don't have the wobble issues with thicker plate saw blades.
PS---I also use the stabilizers when I use 7-1/4" thin blades on my table saws.
Stephanie, I use the stabilizers continually, running a 6 inch dia " forrest" brand stabilizer against "forrest" brand blades when I am doing a lot of plywood cut off and rips at 90 degrees. I have found that I get a better cut and especially in melamine sheets. There is less chip out as the stabilizer is close to the teeth of the blade and thus making the blade much stiffer as well as running cooler. The stabilizer acts like a heat sink. When I start making cuts in miters and or blade tilted cuts I change down to a smaller stabilizer which is a 4 inch dia.
When using any type of stabilizer you will always have to keep in mind that the cutting depth is not as great and remember to be sure never to raise the blade too high as it will hit the bottom of most inserts unless it is an extra wide insert similar to a dado blade insert. If using a wide insert a person should consider using a smaller width insert as it will improve your blade cuts . I use a lot of my own cut inserts and run a lot of zero clearance inserts.
I never use the thin kerf blades for the reason as that are more flexible and even with a stabilizer do not cut as clean and true as a standard 1/8" kerf. If you have your fence set up for use with 1/8" blades you are always having to adjust to make the thin kerf blade cut at exact "zero" The only reason that I can see where the thin kerf blades help is on a small under powered saw where you simply do not have the power to turn a full 1/8" kerf blade. That being the case expect to find yourcuts to suffer from the lack of stability of the blade.
I have the Ridgid 4512. I would guess that not enough power is not the issue. So you are saying that buying the thin kerf blades has no benefit? It seems this problem did not start until after I bought and installed one. I bought Freud blades and thought I needed the thin kerf based on what I was reading. But you do use a stabilizer with standard blades? I just want to make sure I understand you right. I want to solve this problem of the blade burning the wood so I can get moving with the projects I have coming up.
Jay Boutwell said:
Stephanie, I use the stabilizers continually, running a 6 inch dia " forrest" brand stabilizer against "forrest" brand blades when I am doing a lot of plywood cut off and rips at 90 degrees. I have found that I get a better cut and especially in melamine sheets. There is less chip out as the stabilizer is close to the teeth of the blade and thus making the blade much stiffer as well as running cooler. The stabilizer acts like a heat sink. When I start making cuts in miters and or blade tilted cuts I change down to a smaller stabilizer which is a 4 inch dia.
When using any type of stabilizer you will always have to keep in mind that the cutting depth is not as great and remember to be sure never to raise the blade too high as it will hit the bottom of most inserts unless it is an extra wide insert similar to a dado blade insert. If using a wide insert a person should consider using a smaller width insert as it will improve your blade cuts . I use a lot of my own cut inserts and run a lot of zero clearance inserts.
I never use the thin kerf blades for the reason as that are more flexible and even with a stabilizer do not cut as clean and true as a standard 1/8" kerf. If you have your fence set up for use with 1/8" blades you are always having to adjust to make the thin kerf blade cut at exact "zero" The only reason that I can see where the thin kerf blades help is on a small under powered saw where you simply do not have the power to turn a full 1/8" kerf blade. That being the case expect to find yourcuts to suffer from the lack of stability of the blade.
Stephanie, in answer to your question, yes I run the stabilizer on 1/8" kerf saw blades and I do not run any thin kerf blades, There is no advantage of running them as they have more flex than the 1/8" kerf blades. Like I explained the only advantage of the thin kerf in on the lower powered saws as it is like a step up in power because you are not cutting as much material in the small kerf putting less drag on the blade.
Sure they advertise them as saving wood but in reality how much wood are the saving in the thin kerf blade? the average thickness of the thin kerf blades is about 3/32 less than the standard kerf blade so that amount is not going to be enough to sacrifice the down falls of now much more flexible it is and the results of it giving you a less quality of cuts. Like I explained the saw blade is like a heat sink as it absorbs heat which is the enemy to most things in cutting. The heat of the friction of the blade cutting material generated extreme heat of which is then introduced to the material you are cutting and is sometimes the cause of burned wood.
The stabilizer is another way of increasing the heat sink size and the ability to cause the saw blade to run cooler for a longer period of time as well as reducing the flexing of the blade as it cuts. The flexing of the blade causes heat as it is bouncing back and forth in the saw kerf and the flex is also the cause of the vibrations you experience. The stabilizer reduces the amount that the blade can flex and absorbs vibrations that are made. The smaller the saw the more pronounced will be the vibrations as the heavier saw frame will also act much like the stabilizer as it introduces more mass metal to absorb any vibration caused by the ailments of a saw.
I think your problem is caused by either a bad blade that may not be balance and or is actually bent in relationship of the flat plane of the blade plate and the boring of the mounting hole. The other cause may be that at the mounting of the blade is hampered by something between the blade and the trunion flange like maybe some packed sawdust and or wood chips. I would remove the blade and replace it with another one and see if it fixes the problem and stay away from the thin kerf blades. As a rule you will have more problems with a thin kerf blade that you will with a thicker blade. Your saw will perform much better as it will reduce the ability of the blade to flex by a large percentage.
The wobble you see in the blade should be eliminated as much as possible as the rim speed of a 10 inch dia blade is upwards of 100 mph and generated a lot of force that will not only make cutting difficult and horrible but is very dangerous. The run out on a table saw blade should be kept to as close as possible to "Zero" as possible. As I said I use "Forrest" brand blades as that are the best that I have found to being perfect to zero . The rub out of my saw with a new blade is between .002 and .004 inches, (run out is the wobble you are seeing as it rotates) As you use the saw blade you will see its run out become more and more as the heat that the blade has experienced will cause the blade to change in it flatness. Another reason to use the thicker blade as it takes more heat than the thin blade to cause a change in the blade flatness.
Something to consider is that a good blade will make a bad saw perform better but a bad blade will make a great highly tuned saw a horrible saw. This means that you will have to spend some money to get a good blade. Something I will also add here when talking about blades is that they make blades for all kinds of woodwork and in reality it is like a marketing scheme of which a person who buys a good blade does not need to buy one for plywood and another one for ripping and another one for finishing.
I have been working wood as a profession now for going on 28 years and for all of these years I have used the same saw blade which is a 10 inch 40 tooth combination blade of which I rip, cross cut, and finish all types of wood with out any problems. In fact I seldom will use a jointer with the exception of removing a bow in a piece of wood, and I glue up right off my table saw cuts. It does not mean only a certain wood, as I have had the same experience in about every hard wood there is as well as the soft woods from pine to the common plywood's and even melamine.
True I have a super fine tuned saw and use good sharp blades an accurate fence and practice good sawing methods but I have saved a pile of money from not having to buy all these fancy blades. I own a dozen or so combination blades so I always have a good flat blade of which is sharpened by company that will grind and flatten the saw blade plate and then straighten and certify that the blade is save meaning there is no cracks and or defects in either the plate of the carbide teeth and that the blade is balanced. Then when I mount the blade to the saw arbor I check its run out with a dile indicator to be certain that everything will be running true.
If interested I have written and posted several articles in the past about table saw set up and tune up and safety. You can find them by using the search in the upper right hand corner of the kreg community. One was written and posted on May 21, 2011 and deals with tuning up a table saw. Type in "table saw tune up" and it should be available.
Stephanie H said:
I have the Ridgid 4512. I would guess that not enough power is not the issue. So you are saying that buying the thin kerf blades has no benefit? It seems this problem did not start until after I bought and installed one. I bought Freud blades and thought I needed the thin kerf based on what I was reading. But you do use a stabilizer with standard blades? I just want to make sure I understand you right. I want to solve this problem of the blade burning the wood so I can get moving with the projects I have coming up.
Jay Boutwell said:Stephanie, I use the stabilizers continually, running a 6 inch dia " forrest" brand stabilizer against "forrest" brand blades when I am doing a lot of plywood cut off and rips at 90 degrees. I have found that I get a better cut and especially in melamine sheets. There is less chip out as the stabilizer is close to the teeth of the blade and thus making the blade much stiffer as well as running cooler. The stabilizer acts like a heat sink. When I start making cuts in miters and or blade tilted cuts I change down to a smaller stabilizer which is a 4 inch dia.
When using any type of stabilizer you will always have to keep in mind that the cutting depth is not as great and remember to be sure never to raise the blade too high as it will hit the bottom of most inserts unless it is an extra wide insert similar to a dado blade insert. If using a wide insert a person should consider using a smaller width insert as it will improve your blade cuts . I use a lot of my own cut inserts and run a lot of zero clearance inserts.
I never use the thin kerf blades for the reason as that are more flexible and even with a stabilizer do not cut as clean and true as a standard 1/8" kerf. If you have your fence set up for use with 1/8" blades you are always having to adjust to make the thin kerf blade cut at exact "zero" The only reason that I can see where the thin kerf blades help is on a small under powered saw where you simply do not have the power to turn a full 1/8" kerf blade. That being the case expect to find yourcuts to suffer from the lack of stability of the blade.
Stephanie, here is the tune up article that might be of interest to you.
on July 24, 2012
I think I have been a victim of being suckered into thinking I need different saw blades. I just wanted something great for plywood. I hate how the ends get all chewed up. I also bought a zero clearance plate that I am guessing is worthless now that I cut it using the thin kerf. I need to learn how to make my own. Buying that one, although it is nice looking, is probably junk now. Live and learn I suppose. I should have started here and asked questions. You guys are all so smart and helpful with all of the combined years of experience you have. I always appreciate the information, even if sometimes I don't like the answer...when it means a costly mistake :) Being new to this and I love making things with wood. But I am a beginner for sure and always learning new things, along with new mistakes. I just bought a planer and LOVE it. I think I now have most of what I need in my garage/shop to do most things I want. Other than you can never have enough clamps. Just bought some bandy clamps...wow those are nice!
Stephanie,
There are many saw blades on the market.
Peruse the Freud and Diablo saw blades, and familarize yourself with the various types, and their intended use.
I've found they offer very helpful info, about saw blades.
Stephanie, You can still use the zero insert just recut it with the large kerf blade. I read your question about how to determine if your blade is bent. The only real accurate way is to use a dial indicator mounted to the table of your saw, Mount it and set the dial plunger against the blade and zero out the dial The rotate the blade by hand and watch the run out. this will also read any run out in the mounting arbor but if the original blade works alright then the arbor is most likely ok. You can get a cheap dial indicator that would work for general saw set up at Harbor freight. They are not highly accurate in machinist work but ok in woodworking.
it is true that a blade can cause tear out in plywood but it you are buying you material from the big box stores in this area they are getting the cheap imported plywood that is very hard to work with. The veneers are very thin and even the plies de-laminate. I know that you are getting the same quality of wood that is available as you live in the same area as I do. You have a good source of plywood just across the river which is Woodcrafters at 6th and Davis in Portland. I buy most of mine from hardwood industries in Sherwood, Oregon. It is more pricey but the results are good.
I am sure if you check out your saw for alignment and get a good blade you will find a world of difference in how your saw performs. Let me know if I can be of any help .
Stephanie H said:
I think I have been a victim of being suckered into thinking I need different saw blades. I just wanted something great for plywood. I hate how the ends get all chewed up. I also bought a zero clearance plate that I am guessing is worthless now that I cut it using the thin kerf. I need to learn how to make my own. Buying that one, although it is nice looking, is probably junk now. Live and learn I suppose. I should have started here and asked questions. You guys are all so smart and helpful with all of the combined years of experience you have. I always appreciate the information, even if sometimes I don't like the answer...when it means a costly mistake :) Being new to this and I love making things with wood. But I am a beginner for sure and always learning new things, along with new mistakes. I just bought a planer and LOVE it. I think I now have most of what I need in my garage/shop to do most things I want. Other than you can never have enough clamps. Just bought some bandy clamps...wow those are nice!
Dang, I thought it was toast. I will do that this morning when I get started. I buy my wood from Shurway. I try to stay away from those big box stores as we call them, without saying the name. Unless Shurway is closed and I am in dire need will I go there. But I do try to plan ahead as much as possible. Funny thing, I did just buy a digital indicator from HF. Just need to make a t-brace for it. They don't make one for it and I had bought the "Multi-Position Magnetic Base with Fine Adjustment" and took it back. Found it would only work with my table saw. Everything else I have, has a non-metal base.
I use a 5" most of the time unless I need a deep cut and it makes my grizzly a lot less noisey
try covering your cut line with tape it will stop a lot of tear out it duct tape makes a great zero clearance plate in a pinch
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