European Hinges

[Rick Grisoli]

I'm new to this community and I'm new to carpentry in general. I'm going to make a few cabinet doors and I'm planning to use the European hinges. My dilemma is there are so many brands and styles that I am clueless as to which one to buy. I realize that the decision is partially based on what the inside of the cabinet looks like so I need to make sure I buy the correct ones. I am mainly interested in the adjustable hinge because apparently you can make it perfect even if you are a tiny bit off with your measurements. I just don't want to discover that I have to start the entire project over because of some detail I didn't consider. If anyone has any suggestions on a simple "goof proof" European hinge and perhaps a jig for installing the hinge, I would be very grateful. My opening height is 16.5 inches and the width of the opening is 29.5 inches. I plan to make two doors which meet in the middle for this opening. For determining the door width size,  I was told to add 1 inch then divide by 2 and then subtract a 16th of  an inch.   So 29.5 + 1.0=30.5 then half is 15.25 inches or 15 4/16 - 1/16 = 15 3/16 for each door. I also was told to add an inch to the height of the door so I am planning on making 2 doors and each one will be 17.5 inches tall and 15 3/16 wide.......if anyone sees this as a mistake, please let me know as I am supposed to start in a few days. Thanks so much for any suggestions.

 

[Robert Brennan]

Also I see a most comprehensive reply from Jay documenting practical experience (Golden Information)

[Robert Brennan]

Rick

Most large hardware stores carry euro hinges and also have a demonstration board showing the use of the many different variants, and they are all adjustable within reason.

All usually have their individual installation instructions on the bubble pack somewhere.

These instructions also carry a picture image of the positioning detail.

The calculations you quote may well be correct but at the end of the day you are building a series of cabinet doors how they open and where the ajoining doors surfaces are dictate the style used.

As for the inside surface the angular position in relation to the door would be the consideration

[Jay Boutwell]

Thank you Alejandro,  You are very welcome and I am always willing to help anynone at any time.  I appreciate you letting me know that it was helpful to you.  Enjoy your projects and be safe at all times.

[Alejandro Betancourt]

Jay, extremely useful post. Thank you for taking the time to share your experience!

[Jay Boutwell]

Suzy, Your are more than welcome and if I can be of any help just let me know.  European hinges are really a great hinge once you get use to the types and how they are catalogued.  Basically if you are building face frame cabinets then ignore all the information related to frameless and stick to strictly the information about face frame hinges.   What you need to know is the amount of overlay of the door and the type of mount you want to use.  The best is to use the face framed mount that screws on and is adjustable.  You will be faced with knock in mounting into the door as well as the cam lock of which I can tell you from experience the proven and most trouble free ones are the screw on to the face frame and screw on into the 35 mm door hole.  You get stuck in your build and need help attach photos and measurements and I will be glad to help you out.

[Suzy]

Thanks for the Hinge information Jay, we will be building face frame cabinets for many rooms in the house and my husband was just telling me there are so many European Hinges to choose from that he didn't really know where to start.  I will be letting him know about this post.

[james wilhelm]

Hi Jay, well said , have all way,s read your post,s and have learned many thing,s from them!!! There is nothing wrong with saying well done , thanks for sharing or a very nice project !!! That is what this site is all about , showing your project,s and getting a nice comment , no matter how big , how small or fancy it may be, it is what we love to do , build wood project,s, so please keep giving your good advice and have a good day , JIM !!

[Jay Boutwell]

Hi Rick, I have been building cabinets professionally for better that 25 years now and have used many European hinge systems.  The majority of my cabinets have them.  The first thing you need to do is to determine does the cabinets have face frames or European design. (European design is frameless)  Once that is determined then you are ready to select the type of  hinge you need to use.

With face frame cabinets I prefer to use the hinge made  for a face frame.  These attach directly to the face frame.  The next thing you need to do is to determine the swing opening of which there are several with different degrees of opening.  Some are called 110 degree opening of which is 10 degrees more open from a 90 degree line straight out from the cabinet face.  Your are better off getting some with a wider opening as it allows better and easier access to the cabinet interior. 

For base cabinets I prefer to use the mounting plate type of which attach to the cabinet sides rather than intentionally  use of a door to maintain balance when either getting up from a kneeling position and or lowering ones self down to a lever to either add or remove something from the cabinet interior.
You are also correct on decisions that are made based on what the interior of the cabinet and often blocking is used in conjunction with a mounting plate for the hinge being used.
Mounting plates vary in thickness as well as design but must be purchased to be used with the hinge you are choosing.  ( one absolute difference in the face frame hinge and the other type hinges that are used is that most face frame hinges are a single piece where as the other hinges are two pieces.  One is the mounting plate and the other is the hinging mechanism.)
The next difference is the amount of overlay that you wish to use for your doors to be.  This will determine the size of the doors you build both for height and for width and is the opening going to need a single door or a multiple door system.  ( A door that has a predetermined door opening will need a door that will fill the opening and the combination of the hinge either having a 3/8 inch or a 1/2" overlay will require the correct hinge for that door.  This is the main difference in the face frame cabinet and the frameless cabinet.  In short you need a hinge that will hinge the door so that there is a even amount of overlay on the face frame.  It will also require the combination of hinge that will allow as many doors needed to hang to fill the cabinet openings.  What I am saying is that there must be enough face frame and overlay sizing as well as door size to allow a set of cabinets to have a door hinged on each face frame that is needed for the number of door openings.  Example if you have a multiple cabinet with a standard face frame and the cabinets share the same face frame memberthen that hinge door size will require you to divide the face frame evenly for the door.
This is critical in a European cabinet where you get into a different kind of ball game as here you not only have to deal with overlay size but you must also deal with what is known as a 1/2 crank and a full crank hinge design.
Since your are dealing with an opening where your are wanting to divide an opening with two doors then normally the 1/2 inch overlay is what you would choose.  The standard face frame is 2 inches wide however it is not uncommon to find face frames that are only 1 1/2 inches wide.  You may still be able to use the 1/2 inch overlay hinge but you must make sure that there is enough room for doors to open and close.  With this arrangement it is also critical that you keep the doors thin enough to allow them to open side by side at the same time as well as one at a time.  The good thing about a European hinge it opens differently as it opens and if you will look they will hinge open and outward from the face frame.  I build all my doors out of 13/16 stock as it gives you a better door that will stand up to long service,  This is especially true if you build raised panel doors as the opening and closing of a door will exert a lot of pressure.  There is not enough meat in door stock that is only 3/4 inches think to hold up for a long period of time and take the abuse of everyday life a cabinet.  The standard cope and stick bit use a 1/4 inch width for the cutting of a raised panel placement. (normally called the groove)  Once this is cut and the pattern cut is made the remaining amount of door stock is getting thin.  What happens in a door that is made of 3/4 inch think stock holding a raised panel is that the rear of the door will often break out in a matter of a short time.
What happens is the as the door is opened the panel weight will push back on the thin material of the back and crack appear.  When the door is closed the panel will again push against the rear thin material as once the frame stops against the cabinet face frame that heavy panel continues to move and again puts even more pressure against thin door frame material that it did when opened.
The length of time  of service will depend on the persons whom are opening and closing the door.  It is opened and closed gently and slowly or it slammed shut.  Another factor in life of a door is the type of material and wood graining used in the door.
What many do nor realize is that a framed door is made of 5 pieces, the two up and down frame members (vertical) called stiles and the two horizontal frame members called rails and then the panel of the door.  The panel floats within the door frame members to prevent splitting in seasonal changes.  The exception of a floating panel could be plywood as there is on seasonal changes in the panel. In normal door construction it is best to treat all panels the same way and leave them shy of the width of the door frame opening. In a raised panel I leave the difference of 1/4 inch both in width and height and then use rubber inserts in the groove in the rail and stiles.  These keep the door panel tight in the frame yet allows movement from seasonal changes.  These are referred to as panel strips, and also space balls which are a 1/4 inch round live rubber ball.

As for brands of hinges there are many,and many carry American names however most are still manufactured in Europe or other foreign companies for use in America.  They are still figured in millimeters and often need to be converted to American   Some of the brand names are:  Blum, Salice, Amrock, Liberty  which are (home depot brand) , Melpa . Grass and many other off brand hinges.
My favorite two hinges is the Blum and Salice as they are about as good as your are going to get.  Another I will sometime use is the Grass.  These are more expensive but here you get what you pay for.  Many are offered with a soft close and self close feature which are nice but again more expensive.  Another feature offered is the type of door mounting of which are 35mm and some are screw on and some are dowel style of which is driven into the door mounting holes.  These require three holes to be drilled for each hinge.mounted.  Another type is one that has a cam style that is inserted and the cam forced out against the mounting hole. 
These hinges also come in the clip on and non clip on style.  I prefer the clip on as the offer you the ability to remove the door quickly and without removing screws and or disturbing the door hinge adjustment.
As for adjustment different hinges allow a different amount of adjustment but most allow for way adjustment and some give you the added ability to cock the door to allow for face frame to door on difficult door hanging.  Some are simple and some take more time to adjust.
The above figures that you have included in your post are correct and is figuring the sizing of door for a double door without a center stile.  It is for a 1/2" overlay of the doors on the face frame both in width and height. 
I hope this covers most of the questions about hinges and doors.  I did recently write a long detailed post of hinges in answer to a post from Kreg Community Member Tim Hadaway and it was in answer to hinges being made in metric sizes.  You should be able to find it on his page.  I have also cabinet door building post on my page.  You will find it on either "my Photos" or "My Projects"  There is a slide show posted.  Need more help please feel free to contact me

[Jay Boutwell]

Patricia, In response to your post, I meant everything I wrote in my post.  This is not the first time I have spent a long period of time writing to answer a post and it is never read so I figure what is the  point of writing.  This has become more frequent and has happened many times in recent months.  As I have stated I have never failed to attempt to help anyone whom requests help but on the same token I do not write the information just so I can see my picture on the site.   I could care less if I get a big acknowledgement but at least It would be nice to know that the person asking for help would at least indicate that they read it.    When a person takes a long time writing and you never hear from the person again, or see the project and he or she is like disappeared from the site it is frustrating. 

I deleted the last post that I wrote to make a point  I set here everyday and read the posts made by members.  I see their projects that have been build and also see who gets their projects acknowledged.  I have seen many members on here that will build a project of which they are proud of and yet they never get their project acknowledged.  If they are lucky enough to get a project acknowledged the comment are short and simple and goes something like this: "nice work" Good Job"  It that not a let down to that person?  Now the projects I am talking about are quality woodworking and it is totally ignored.   Certain people get their project picked for "Featured Projects" and carefully looking at them they are not as good as some who get their project ignored.

Going back to the comments made often about a persons project when it is said "Nice work" or "Nice Job" how does this help a person learn.  I would challenge you to find one post of which I have posted a comment about someone's project of which I did not at least tell that person what I liked about his or her work. That not only tells them something about their work but it also elevated their confidence level and make them feel that their project was worth the work the did to build it.

This also goes for some whom have given advise to others asking for it and it is ignored just like I have said above. 

I am a senior member of the community and have seen many members loose interest in the community.  Many of them have told me their complainants and it is along the same lines that I have wrote about but many have described their reasons as it is more of a "club" and "click" organization rather that for what it was intended for.

The thing I do not understand is what does the powers to be, work on getting more members and do nothing to regain the active membership of the ones whom have gone.

I have been doing wood work professionally for about 27 years and have a wealth of knowledge that I would pass on to others and I am willing to do so as long as I know that it is at least read.  That does not mean that anyone has to agree to what I am saying but it is there for them to gleam what they can from it.

Since you have wrote a post I will be more that happy to re-post the hinge information as now at least I will know at least one person will read it.  The member you mentioned apparently read it earlier but never indicated that he had until I deleted it.  I appreciate  you replying to my post.   Have a great day.   I will repost the hinge soon.

[Patricia Larson]

I am sorry you feel your efforts are too often not acknowledged. And I am particularly sorry that you deleted your response to Rick (who obviously did appreciate your input), as I, too, am planning on working with European hinges and GREAT (to quote Ken Darga) advice from someone more knowledgeable than I would certainly have been helpful.  But I do understand.  Providing information cogently does take time and effort...and most of us already have more than enough demands on our time.