Pocket holes used to attach 5/8" melamine to face frames

[greenthumb]

Guys
What is your experience attaching face frames to 5/8" melamine with pocket screws? Does it work?
Any advice is appreciated.
Thx
Jim

[KregRep]

Hi Jim,

Yes, pocket-hole joinery and pocket-hole screws will work with melamine. Just be sure to use coarse-thread screws if you will be drilling in to melamine.

When it comes to joining materials of different thicknesses, it’s a good idea to test screw length. Do this by drilling in to a test piece(s). The typical rule is as follows: Set your Kreg Jig® for the thickness of material you are drilling the pocket hole in. Then, choose screw size based on thickness of the mating piece the screw will be entering in to.

Attached is a Screw Chart for reference. If you are drilling in to 5/8" melamine, use 1" pocket-hole screws. 

If you have any other questions, feel free to contact Technical Support directly at 800-447-8638 or [e-mail] for assistance. They will be more than happy to help!

Thanks,

KregRep

[greenthumb]

Kreg Rep

Thank-you for your response. 

 

I want to attached 3/4 inch width faceframes to 5/8 inch melamine.

 

My concern is the fact that my cabinets are using 5/8 inch melamine not 3/4 inch melamine.  Does using the smaller width melamine present a problem using pocket holes.  Does anyone have experience with this thickness?  Does it work?   Will it hold?  What problems might I encounter?  What tips to overcome problems?

 

Big thx,

 

Jim

[KregRep]

You should not have any issues joining these two pieces. Just make sure to set your jig for 5/8" material and use 1" pocket-hole screws.

[greenthumb]

Thx for reply.

Separate but related issue:

The 5/8 inch cabinet boards are already joined together to form the cabinet box. Is there a way to drill holes for the 5/8 inch memamine when the boards are joined together forming the box. I hoped that spacer blocks would do it, but Alas, they dont tie into the 5/8" thick material.
I wanted to use these pocket holes to attach the face frames to the carcusses.

Any ideas?

Thx

Jim

[Jay Boutwell]

Jim, from my experience with using 5/8 inch thick melamine cabinets is not the most favorable thickness that you can use.  It simply is not thick enough and in the cabinet industry gives you sub standard cabinets simply because it is not strong enough.  Melamine is a brittle product that is also subject to cracking at joinery locations.  This complicates the construction of a cabinet much more difficult  It requires careful insertion of screws and other fasteners to avoid the cracking and chipping.  The hanging of the uppers becomes a chore in which must be done carefully as they are prone to breaking out of hanging supports and the falling off the wall is greatly higher that one made of 3/4 inch melamine.  For lower cabinets most times are not strong enough for heavier counter tops unless additional members are installed to hold the weight.

A person is far better off using the 3/4" thick melamine as it allows you room for screws and even staples and the extra thickness gives you a larger glue surface as well.  It is a more stable product and the hardware such as European hinges are set up for the 3/4" thickness.  Even the heat applied tapes are mostly made for 3/4 melamine.   

5/8 thick melamine can be used as inter panel partitions however I do not recommend it and does not make shelve material due to its thickness and especially for a span greater that about 2 feet.  I know that there will be the arguments of there being ready made cabinets made of 5/8 "  material however these are mostly stapled together and last just long enough to get them home and installed.  They are hard to install and will fit like a cheap pair of shoes.  The thinner material is another one of the industries method of mass producing junk and still get a high price for it. 

I should explain here too that there are to grades of melamine sheets.  The only one that is good for building cabinets out of is the Industrial grade.  It has a thicker layer of melamine on a core of highly compressed fibers and both the core and the melamine are applied and compressed under a heat source.  The glues in the core are much stronger and not as weak as the other sheets of melamine of which have larger particles of wood and are not compressed with a higher mixture of glue. 

Speaking of glue the best glue that I have found for bonding melamine is one called "ROO"  There are two types one for wood and one for plastic.  The one for melamine is the plastic type which will bond both melamine to melamine and or melamine to wood. 

As you have already found out how difficult it is just attempting to attach a face frame,  Had this melamine been 3/4" the 1& 1/4 inch would work easily and the end result would be that much better.

When driving screws use the course thread and drive with a driver however forget that clutch setting mode and drive the screw down until the surfaces mate with the screw head bottomed in the hole and do not turn more than 1/4 additional turn at the "most"  or the sides of the hole will crack out.

[greenthumb]

Thank you for your response.

Several years ago I bot and digested Build Your Own Kitchen Cabinets by Danny Proulx. Armed with this knowledge i made some bathroom base cabinets, which turned out well. However the 3/4 cabinet grade melamine was heavy.

In the above mentioned book it was said either 5/8 or 3/4 melamine works. So on this project i used 5/8 because it was lighter. I used 2 inch square drive particle board screws for the carcuss sides and did not have any blow out. PTL

Your concerns about the upper cabinets being able to stay put on the walls and the strength of 5/8 to hold up granite counter tops is noted. However, now that the cacusses are cut and made, what strenghtening proceedures could i take to make sure the upper cabinets stay put on the wall and the base cabinets hold up under the weight of the granite yop. Any advice would be appreciated

Thanks

Jim

[Jay Boutwell]

Jim, on the upper cabinets install some 3/4" 3 or 4 Inch wide wood material across the back which would be a hanging cleat.  Attach these hanging cleats firmly to each end and across the top using screws.  Attach these   hanging cleats with screws (not deck screws as they are too brittle) at each wall stud.  Attach all the cabinets together that are in a line of cabinets doing the same as above thus making a line of cabinets that are all attached together make a stronger bond to the wall.  At the bottom of each cabinet attach to the wall depending on how you build the cabinets.  Perferably these should have a bottom cleat so that they can be screwed to the wall at the bottom of each cabinet.   See the danger of cabinets is not from them falling straight down but they will pivot from the top outward and down.

 

On the lower cabinets repeat the cleat at the backs of the cabinets and install them against the wall.  add cross braces made of 3 to 4 inch wide material running from front to back will help keep everything square and keep the end panels plumb.  Add in some corner blocks also makes the box stronger.  Depending on the number of inter panels also is a factor, the more the better.  If installing a heavy counter top such as granite you must support the granite top in such way that it does not bow.  Ideally it should be supported every 2 sq feet as it is brittle. Since it is heavy that means that the verticle uprights of the cabinet  (sides and inter panels as well as the floor of the cabinet and toe kick unit must support the weight.  The horizonal pieces such as face frames and the hanging cleat in the rear must support the counter top weight in a way that neither the cabinets or the top bows.   There has been times where I build cabinets that were going to that the 1 inch plus tops and have build them so that the finish height is corred that even made the cabinet 3/4 in shorter in height to and added a full 3/4 in top of plywood on the top.That is my favorite method as the counter top installer can then level the top by using screws driving up and through the 3/4 plywood.  If you are using a lighter counter top then you do not need to go to the extreams of adding full plywood top.  The thing here is to make sure that the cabinets can withstand the weight of the top.

 

On one of my prior post I wrote a long article on hanging cabinets and what happens if you do not hang them properly.   Jim in the search box in the upper right hand of the page type in the following: building and installing cabinets. look for my post of april 16, 2015.

[Jay Boutwell]

Jim I have been building cabinets for a profession of over 27 years and in my time I have written many articles on building cabinets including how to measure for and prepare for the hanging of cabinets.  In the search box type in building cabinets as well as cabinets and look for my name.  I have not been on her much any more but do check from time to time and post occassional if I see something that I can help someone,  At one time you could do a search of posts related to a name of a person,  If I can help more please let me know.

 

[greenthumb]

Jay

Thank you for such great advice

This quite an adventure!

Jim

[Jay Boutwell]

greenthumb said:

Any time Jim always willing to help anyone whom asks for or writes an article where I think I can help.

Jay

Thank you for such great advice

This quite an adventure!

Jim