Not a panacea

[JB]

As wonderful as the Kreg jig is, it is simply not a good substitute for fine joinery! Look up joinery tests in Fine Woodworking, would you rather build an heirloom piece of furniture with tried and true solid wood tenons or butt joints and screws?

[Frank Gardecki]

I think that would be a overkill but why not? the stronger the better I do believe a dowel will fit between the 2 pocket holes

[Frank Gardecki]

Hi Jigman , You can't beat a dovetail joint for all around holding strength  but the downfall is expensive jig and time.

[jigman]

I agree that there are stronger joints in some cases.   I have a dovetail jig and have not used it yet.   I know there is a learning curve with them.   Maybe this summer I will try it.  If I wanted to make a really strong joint in the drawing table I could have counter sunk the braces and then did the kreg screws.  I think you will find that the kreg sytem is plenty strong for the application.  Ofcourse I always glue.  I have seen dovetails let loose due to the glue used.  Just check out older dressers.   The glues now I think would hold a lot better.  I know a good glued joint will tear the would apart before it will let go.

[Frank Gardecki]

Hi Jigman  have you ever use Gorilla glue  strong as a weld on steel but a little messy if they can get rid of the escaping glue  that would be a great glue. i have a cheap dovetail jig  and you have to concentrate and follow instructions

[jigman]

I used gorilla glue on some bookcases I made.  It did work great.  I had water in a spray bottle and just sprayed the joint before glueing.   A good sharp chisel helped me remove the excess.  I tried to get it before it go to hard.

I have the Rockler dovetail jig with the accessories.   I hope to use it on a few projects.  I feel I will use it for looks even though it is a strong joint.

[Alex Sykes]

I guess I am unusual on this site, I build things for my property. Cupboards, shelving, covered boardwalks, benches, planters, even a few birdhouses. There are kreg pocket joints in all of these projects. I am just waiting for the weather to ease just a little more and I am going to build a new tack room and a new workshop and I already see where I will need the Jig. Is it the only way to join two pieces of wood? Of course not! Sometimes I go crazy and use a nail! I don't consider myself an experienced woodworker and if I needed to learn other joinery methods I am sure I could but the list of repairs gets long in the spring and I have yet to find a place that my pocket joinery wasn't strong enough to do the job. "Heirloom" is more about the love and care put into the piece than the joinery put into the piece.  Or atleast that's what I think! 

[Alex Sykes]

Before you critisize people you should reread what JB said yourself. "it is simply not a good substitute for fine joinery" sounds like a putdown of pocket joinery to me?  It seems to me that JB is probably one of those guys who likes to instigate trouble to make themselves feel important otherwise why post the comment on the Kreg forum.

Richard Hubert said:

I cannot believe how some readers/ responders to this blog feel that they have have to dis and put down JB for making his innocent comment about woodworking joinery.  You would think he threatened to spread the black plague around the world or something.

 

Go back and read his initial comment.  He is not putting down Kreg jigs or pocket hole joinery.  What he is saying is that Kreg jigs are great - but they are not a substitute for some better woodworking joints out there - especially those seen in fine furniture.  And you know what - he is correct!  I have used thousands of Kreg screws in pocketholes for many years and know they work great for many projects.  My 3 Kreg jigs are some of my all time favorite tools and I would never want to be without them.  But they are not the best solution for all joints all the time.  Just 1 example - You want to sit in a chair held together only by pocketholes?  Not me.  Mortise and tenon joints are much stronger and the better solution for chairs. 

 

Please stop acting so superior that you have to put down others.  Read what JB is really saying and move on.

[jigman]

I have all three titebond glues.  I use each one for different applications.  For instance the regular yellow glue I use on things that may not be permanent.  Now saying that I tested it on glueing two scrap pieces of wood and the grab was fast and I could not pull the joint apart after it was set.  I had to break it apart.  The problem I see with that glue it will harden really hard.  Still a great glue.   I used it on glueing sand paper to wood or a old sand block.   I did use it on my drawing desk.   I was low on titebond II.   I feel it did a great job on it.  Time will tell. 

[zencuke]

I'm puzzled. Where better to talk about the strengths and weakness of the Kreg jig than on a Kreg jig forum. That is where the people are that care the most.  Pointing out a limitation is not the same thing as criticism. Every tool and technique has limitations. A 12 inch ruler is great for measuring distances less than 12" inches. You can use it outside that limit up to a point but it gets harder. Pointing that limitation out doesn't mean a 12 inch ruler is defective. The fact that it is not practical for measuring the distance from here to China doesn't detract from its value. A 12 inch ruler does what it is supposed to do and does it well. Similarly the Kreg does some joints extremely well and is the clear winner over any other technique. There is a second category of joints where the Kreg is adequate but other techniques might do as well. In these cases the decision might depend on your skill set or familiarity or other issues in the project. A third category of joints includes cases where the Kreg is a bad idea. So far you could take the word Kreg out of what I just said and replace it with whatever technique you want and it will still apply.  That is just the way the world is. Understanding strengths and weaknesses of anything is just valuable  data to have. My experience with my Kreg is limited but I can see that there a very large set of cases where the Kreg is better hands down than anything else. Saying that there are things it doesn't do as well doesn't detract from it one bit.

I think the real problem is that some people are not pointing out limitations, they are pointing out their personal likes and dislikes. I have friends who are hand tool joint snobs. You know the type. People like them have already posted in this thread. They would never consider owning a Kreg. They barely tolerate power tools of any kind in their shop. That's perfectly fine as long as they don't sneer at people who make different choices.

 

Geoff Simpson said:

Well said Ray.

 

JB, you'll realize there are a lot of new woodworkers here.  The tool gives newer woodworkers and hobbyists the confidence to build things that they wouldn't have even considered before.  So lets try a little positive input rather than dumping on the use of a tool that's giving people the freedom and enjoyment of an exciting and rewarding hobby.

 

So, Instead of bringing to light the weakness of pocket joinery (on a brand/application specific forum i might add), why not head over to lumberjocks.  It's a great place to spew the glory of all things mortis and tenon, dovetail, finger, biscuit, half-lap etc....although i'm fairly confident that you already know that.