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Good Morning Kreger's & Happy "SUPER BOWL SUNDAY" ...!

Jay Boutwell, Ken Darga... etc;

I am thinking that I made a Mistake guided by the cost of materials

and a Lumber Rep at one of the Big Market Home Stores.

I was already to use 3/4 Birch for my garage Cabinets. I was convinced by the Rep

at this store to use the: 23/32 Cabinet Grade Pine Plywood. I am hoping I didn't waste

$130.00 on this instead of the Birch. Also, will I think I will now have to use COARSE THREAD screws

instead of the fine thread I was originally planning on using. I assume I would still use the 1-1/4''

length even though the 23/32" Ply is a little bit smaller?

I have attached a Picture of the label that's on 4x8's. Any help will be truly appreciated.

Thanks in Advance, WayneWhy Did I get This...?

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Wayne,

The material, described above, will be suitable for garage cabinets.

They can be painted or stained (option) and top coat in polyurethane or shellac.

1-1/4" screws can be used.  

(I've read where someone used fine thread screws and they got satisfactory results).

Try the fine thread screws, just don't put as much torque, so as to avoid strip-out.

Course thread screws are recommended in soft woods. The greater spacing between the threads allows for more material between the threads for greater holding power.

I'd make some practice pieces from cut-offs, of the same material, so that you'll be satisfied with the results.

Adjust the stop collar a tad "shallower" than for the 3/4" setting, so that the pocket holes aren't drilled as deep.

Like with the drill bit point 1/4" above the clamping base. 

(The normal setting of the drill stop would allow the drill bit point about 1/16", (the thickness of a nickel), above the clamping base).

Using 3/4" plywood throughout will result in a much "heavier" weight cabinet.

(You may have to use a forklift or crane to hoist and position the upper cabinets).  

Making a frame and panel construction---with rails and styles, with 1/4" panels inserted in grooves, would make for much "lighter" in weight.

Bottom(s) and shelving 3/4" thick material---(3/4" thick plywood will support more dead weight, when the shelves are loaded).

Grooves, in the rails & styles, can be cut on a table saw or router table.

Check out the Sommerfeld videos

Lots of great info and for making cabinets. 

www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=sommerfeld+videos

Perhaps you could make a cabinet with the 3/4" material and another of frame & panel construction.

I did this approach, eons ago, when I made my first cabinet, for my garage shop, using pine/fir.

After making the frame & panel version, cabinet and doors, I haven't looked back.

I made all the grooves for the panels on a table saw.  And made tongue & groove joints for the frames.

Have fun with your wood construction.

My guess is the price difference was about $15 / sheet(?)

The only difference is going to nothing more than cosmetic - which in a garage is typically well worth the savings.

Btw, when dealing with plywood, you're always using coarse thread screws.

Fine thread is when working with solid hardwoods like you'd use for face frames, etc.

As to the thickness being 1/32 short of a full 3/4, I don't bother tweaking the depth setting on the bit.

It really doesn't make a difference, and I don't have to remember to "tweak" the setting back when drilling the face frame pieces.

And to confirm, yes, 1 1/4" screws.

Happy building!

Hi Wayne, If this is truly 23/32 in thickness I  would not worry too much about the small amount of difference as this is metric sizing.  You got this due to the last word on the tag in your photo "CHINA".  It is the curse of most cabinet makers as not only is the size thinner that the common tooling in bits that we all had but it have extremely thin veneers covering some other not so good cores often with voids and poor laminations.  It may say cabinet grade but it is not always true.  The big change came about a few years ago and caused most of the cabinet makers to have to buy new bits used in cutting dado's and no most are pretty much sitting on the shelf gathering dust.  

See all this foreign trade has hurt many in the hopes of saving money when in fact often the result is loss of employment positions in this country but has given us inferior products.

In my business I build custom cabinetry and there was a time before the arrival of these slabs of junk that I could build a cabinet and sell it cheaper that I can today as I could build what would be called a semi custom where the sides of cabinets exposed to the eye when installed could be that of a cabinet grade plywood.  I could feel certain that the plywood would take a nice even stain or clear coat and look good without the danger of it coming apart from the blistering of the thin ply due a light exposure to moisture common to the normal environment of a home or bathroom or the exposure of sunlight coming though a window or door.

Today I can not do this and this has forced me to have to charge more for the same cabinet where I have to build and install a second panel covering the visible  areas of the cabinet.

Not only is this the only problem with the thin ply veneer but you also have no room for sanding and the result is that you burn through the ply surface and then the appearance is one that is akin to a spotted leopard.  Then you have two choices left, number one is to leave it and your customer will be unhappy and or put a new panel to cover it as what I now do knowing that it is not practical to expect to be able to sand out any imperfections.

I have known several cabinet shops that have had to rebuild a cabinet over finding the a necessary when they apply a finish coat and then you can see the ripples of the veneer knife chatter as it cuts the veneer slice from the tree.  Believe me you profits take a hit and you get this feeling of unhappiness .  Your only recourse then is to go back to the dealer and see if they will help with the loss and most times it is "NO".  So you loose.

Oh yes there is money made by using this imported stuff.  It is not you or me or a customer but it is the big box stores who buy pennies on the dollar and sell it to you like it was a valuable top of the line product.  Now that I have spoken my piece about this topic I will get back to the topic and address your concerns.

I would not worry about the small amount of thickness difference as it will work with the 3/4" settings and your can use either the course or the fine thread screws.  ( some may differ from me using fine screws but I guess when you have screwed as many screws as I have it tells me something. Stripping screws is a matter of when you stop twisting the screws when it bottoms out.  The reason that I do not use the clutch setting on my driving devices and I even use an air driver on many occasions.  I go by the sound of the screw as it drives into the wood.)

Something to always remember about these salesmen at most stores as they will all have their own idea and will try to convince you to their way of thinking but also remember that most a very limited amount of experience and also they are trying to sell the product that they sell.  They will down talk a competition's product to sell their products just like car salesmen as their car is always the best.  It is their job to sell you their products and convince you that they have the best when in fact in many cases it is just the opposite.

The best idea is to go to the store  with your mind made up as to what you are going to purchase and have a good sound reason of why you change your mind . 

 I look at it this way when you get a salesman involved you better look a little at him being the enemy as you are often asking someone who has no experience in the world is construction and is better at fast talking and selling you his product.  Start asking them the difference in different woods and they soon will walk away or very quickly you will start seeing what their true knowledge is.

It is like the cabinet sales business where you get inferior products that are stapled together and sold as custom cabinets when in reality all that is custom about them if the word "custom" and of course the price.  they are sold to you as an "all wood product" when in reality they are wood and also card board or hard board with photo finished paper of a wood grain stuck on them.  It would not be a surprise to me to find camouflaged duck tape stuck in them.

Believe it of not but this is some of what a cabinet maker has to contend with as these places selling these rapid made pieces of junk has convinced many and set the standard in pricing in cabinets.  You have someone come to you and request a bid on a custom built kitchen cabinet and you quote them a fair price and they squeal like you are robbing them, and the first thing they say well I can get the same thing over at home depot or lowes.

Another is the DIY programs on TV where they have convinced many that it is a two day job to remodel your house and they come in with such things as being dressed in fancy clothes and high heels swinging a sledge hammer and the finished job appears before your eyes in a matter of a short time.  This is also doing its injustice to the true craftsman who is making his living practicing his trade.

So what I am telling you is to beware of such short falls as I have pointed out above.  Know what you want and stick to your guns when you buy your materials.  After all you know better that anyone what you want to do and then most times your first indications are the best. 

So here I would have stayed with the time proven materials and shinned the salesman on.  It would have been fun asking him why is this material better that the one you wanted.  Way this material on sale and if so why was it on sale?   Most often it is on sale for a reason as they want to get rid of it, they are making more money selling it as they buy it cheaper and can sell it for more than the profit margin of the birch.  

The best rule of thumb is to buy the best you can afford and spend that money at a lumber dealer ship that sells only quality products and it does not include tomatoes and cabbage at the same place.

Take notice and see how many actual large contractor trucks do you see loading out a large amount of building materials at a Big Box store.  There is a reason you do not see many.

Have a good day and enjoy the big game.  :)

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