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 With all the accurate miter saws and table saws available and the Kreg Jig pocket screw system of today, the making of angled joints has allowed us to master the art of joining wood together.

 Since building a cabinet that runs along a wall in a straight line requires little or no angle cutting of stock, other that the 90 degree cut to length and join with a pocket screw.  Other configuration require the use of miters and angles.   I was wondering what everyones method is for doing cabinet runs that twist and bend into angles like like 22 1/2 degrees,  45 degrees and or some other angle to fit a wall or build a custom cabinets run other than a straight line or a 90 degree bend.  I know everyone has their own  methods and it would be interesting to hear about everyone's approach to this problem.

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Scott:  in reference to your question:  There are two photos above and one blue print drawing.  Are you asking about the above photo with the shoe showing  and  the blue print drawing, or the photos # 57302057 and #57302058 by R.E.Woods that was shown earlier in the discussion. 

 There is also a photo with red and yellow lettering above the one with the angle wood and a man's shoe in it.  The one  with the man's shoe is one of R.E. Woods photos and the one with the red and yellow lettering is one of mine of which I sent  to R.E. Woods in explaination to his photo (withshoe )and his drawing. 

 In my photo I was explaining to him that the method I use to turn a 45 degree corner was to cut the 45 degree angle on one piece only and then using a square cut, butt it up to the 45 degree and screw it together using pocket screws.  Because the angle cut will cause the wood to grow in length across the angle, then cut the protruding amount off using a straight cut.  In the narration below, below the photo, I explained that the pocket screws are to be located on the side that was not exposed to view.  In this case on the opposite side shown in my photo.  The cut removing the protruding wood is cut off at the pencil line shown in the photograph.  For a complete explanation please look at my detailed photos in the beginning when I started this discussion and follow it.  I think it will answer your questions.  If not please contact me. 

Scott said:

But where are the pocket holes?

I cannot tell from the 2 photos.

 

Curious...


Scott


R. E. Woods said:

I am hoping to build a corner cabinet.  The pictures are test cuts of the angled side and back. The cuts are 45 degrees and pocketholes should work. the cabinet will work in a corner or against a wall.
I think he may be wondering about my photos, so I took some more. The pocketholes will be on the inside. Most will hidden by drawers so I won't have to fill them in. I only did one screw as a test. This is what would be the two pieces to the left in the previous photos. They pocketholes weren't actually visible or connected in the previous photos as I decided to shift the pieces after I had drilled the test hole.
Yes, it was R.E.'s photos I was referencing with my question for clarification.

These angles and hole positions make intuitive sense to me.

I am thinking that neither of these two described methods for dealing with corners would work with plywood veneers on a front/exposed side. (?)

The photo of the angled from piece appears to have the advantage of the solid stock panel frames / design.

Thoughts...

Scott



R. E. Woods said:
I think he may be wondering about my photos, so I took some more. The pocketholes will be on the inside. Most will hidden by drawers so I won't have to fill them in. I only did one screw as a test. This is what would be the two pieces to the left in the previous photos. They pocketholes weren't actually visible or connected in the previous photos as I decided to shift the pieces after I had drilled the test hole.

Scott, you are absolutely correct. it is pretty limited to the use in face frame solid stock.  The veneer can be screwed using the method it is strong however the only drawback is that there is a line that is left  that has no veneer on it when you cut or sand off the protrussion of the material.

  The advantage is that  most corner cabinet are bent into the wall such as a 90 degree bend in walls.  Otherwise  the veneer material can be hidden from view by using a piece of hardwood at the bends, cutting the angle into the solid stock..  The hardwood would be the one you cut the angle on and thus is the one you cut or sand off down to the veneer of the ply.   The results is depending on how well you match the ply and the hardwood grain.  It still gives you a strong corner of which you can make a presentable looking cabinet corner.  Since I usually  build raised panels on anything visable to the eye it is not a problem as the stiles of the raised panel are cut in the same fashion.  Screw bored in the 90 degree square lumber and screwed in the mitered piece.  It is the best method that I have found in the 20 plus years of building cabinetary. 

I can see then cutting the panel that's going to have it's core exposed a little short and replace it with solid stock - like a wide edgeband.

 

grain and color matching could be interesting, but would deal with the problem.

 

hmmmm.... that would workI think

 

Isn't that at least 50% of the "fun", figuring it all out! :)

 

Jay Boutwell said:

Scott, you are absolutely correct. it is pretty limited to the use in face frame solid stock.  The veneer can be screwed using the method it is strong however the only drawback is that there is a line that is left  that has no veneer on it when you cut or sand off the protrussion of the material.

  The advantage is that  most corner cabinet are bent into the wall such as a 90 degree bend in walls.  Otherwise  the veneer material can be hidden from view by using a piece of hardwood at the bends, cutting the angle into the solid stock..  The hardwood would be the one you cut the angle on and thus is the one you cut or sand off down to the veneer of the ply.   The results is depending on how well you match the ply and the hardwood grain.  It still gives you a strong corner of which you can make a presentable looking cabinet corner.  Since I usually  build raised panels on anything visable to the eye it is not a problem as the stiles of the raised panel are cut in the same fashion.  Screw bored in the 90 degree square lumber and screwed in the mitered piece.  It is the best method that I have found in the 20 plus years of building cabinetary. 

Yes sir Scott, figuring it out is part of the fun.  Once you get to this stage of the game with the idea in your mind you will start to see how it will work.  The first time I did it, I was trying to figure out how to to twist a corner without having to reply on wood putty and seams that jump right out at you and smacks you right in the face.  When you build a cabinet or anything else there is always something that is other than perfect and it will be there and reguardless of how much you try to hide it, your eye will keep looking directly at the flaws.  Others may not see it but you will because you know it is there.  By using methods that alter, is kinda like a magician, so to speak.  Things don't really disappear, your eye is tricked into thinking it did my altering your eyes attention away from the actual object.  In this case the belief that the seam has to be in the joint.

What this method  does is allows you some advantage as you can "trick the eye" into looking for the joint, that is not there.  For instance, most will look directly at the corner where two objects normally join together.  Because we are acustomed to thinking that if the corner is there, the seam should be also.  What we are not customed to is looking for a joint seam at a location where it is not because you have really made the seam about 1/4" away when using a 45 degree miter  in 3/4" thick stock.   It is like in finish carpentry, you objective is to cover up and hide any mistakes the carpentar makes.  You do this by using tricks of fooling the eye.  You make something more or less become un-noticeable.  Simple things like using a "back cut" in a piece of molding of say to two to three degrees makes the 45 degree miter in a door casing almost perfect because you have made the actual seam contact like knife blade thin.  I used to do this by keeping a piece of 1/4" hardwood in my tool belt and when cutting the miter I would slip the hardwood piece under the trim piece and cutting the miter, face side up of course.   The result is a back cut with the miter done at the same time .

In doing a laminate joints, like veneer, counter top laminate, floor covering where you are wanting to join the two surfaces together the most effective method would to make what is known as a "mirrow edge cut".  In this method by laying one piece on top of the other, just as you would see it after you lay the items together, and then cutting both pieces in a single cut line will make a almost perfect joint.  Since any imperfection in the cut of the one has just the opposite same cut in the other piece but just in the opposite direction just like it was the image in a mirrow. 

I hope I am explaining this so it is understandable to others.  It is easier to physically show this that it is to explain it. 

Another example, in art you draw a photograph of say an animal or a person.  You will fiddle with it and fiddle with it trying to make it look like what your mind says it should look like.  You look at it so much that you will question yourself.  The easiest way it see your picture differently is to lift it up and flip it over and looking throught the back side, by holding it up the light, or looking at it through a mirrow.  You will see your image is a different view thus seeing it as another person sees it. 

Scott said:

I can see then cutting the panel that's going to have it's core exposed a little short and replace it with solid stock - like a wide edgeband.

 

grain and color matching could be interesting, but would deal with the problem.

 

hmmmm.... that would workI think

 

Isn't that at least 50% of the "fun", figuring it all out! :)

 

Jay Boutwell said:

Scott, you are absolutely correct. it is pretty limited to the use in face frame solid stock.  The veneer can be screwed using the method it is strong however the only drawback is that there is a line that is left  that has no veneer on it when you cut or sand off the protrussion of the material.

  The advantage is that  most corner cabinet are bent into the wall such as a 90 degree bend in walls.  Otherwise  the veneer material can be hidden from view by using a piece of hardwood at the bends, cutting the angle into the solid stock..  The hardwood would be the one you cut the angle on and thus is the one you cut or sand off down to the veneer of the ply.   The results is depending on how well you match the ply and the hardwood grain.  It still gives you a strong corner of which you can make a presentable looking cabinet corner.  Since I usually  build raised panels on anything visable to the eye it is not a problem as the stiles of the raised panel are cut in the same fashion.  Screw bored in the 90 degree square lumber and screwed in the mitered piece.  It is the best method that I have found in the 20 plus years of building cabinetary. 

Jay, great job explaining this you showed me a much better and faster way of doing this angls. Really appreciate you sharing this.

You are most welcome, Tony always glad to pass along something that I have learned that might be of some help the ones whom are starting in wood working.  I can tell you it makes life easier and it is a excellent joint and mthod of turning curves in a cabinet project.  Once you practice it you will become fast at it and get better at matching your wood grains.  One way is to cut your pieces from wide stock and then assemembel it back after you make your angle cut in one piece.  Another thing that I don't think I explained in the post is that if you really want to make a joint that is strong run a shallow spline down the joint.  I have done some that I never used pocket screws especially when the cabinet will have glass doors and or in other wise highly visible  and a pocket hole would be distracting.   If you do this cut the spline groove close to the inside of the joint and not the center as the groove would extend in to far into the mitered piece and cause a weakness in the mitered piece.  I just applied glue in the joint applied the spline and clamped together,  A trick to keep in mind in all your woodworking jointery is to clean the excess glue off while still wet and wash the joint with white vinegar.  Vinegar will remove the glue residue left at the joint and often it the cause of difficulity in finishing causing that agraviating white spots.  Just besure you joint is tight and use common sense and don't  flood the area with the vinegar as it can soak into your glue and cause a weak joint.  just wipe it dry immediately after the wash.

Slip them in blue box for reference

Jay Boutwell said:

Thanks Geoff I don't quite understand the image thing.  It duplicates at times. Tried to attach two images and it would not take the image so I sent a second one, and now I see three.  Oh well the more the better, maybe we can sell one of them, you think? have a great day 

Geoff Simpson said:
Niiice.  Great work Jay....i fully understand now



Jay Boutwell said:

(Angled cabinets continued:)    In dealing with an angled cabinets  the most ideal thing is to cut the miters and the 90 degree piece from the same stock of wood thus maintaining grain figures as well as color of wood.  The same applies in the sheet goods as well as wide lumber.  To make a miter turn in sheet goods or lumber mitered in the long grain cut, the same miter to 90 degree connection applies.  To cut a stile in a mitered turn, use stock that is wider than the finished size of the two stiles.  Cut the needed miter angle and then recut the waste from the stock into a 90 degree stock and attach the miter again allowing the toe of the miter to extend past the 90 degree stock and then sand or cut this off.  The photo below is a 45 degree outside miter that you would use on the back of a cabinet. A 22 1/2 degree is done the same manner and if you match the grain you will  make an almost invisable joint.  The best part of this, it is done with two saw cuts, no cleats or backing pieces.  It is flush on the inside and the outside and it is fastened with pocket screws and glue.  Again to make a inside piece, just reverse the piece so the screws are on the side opposite that of what you want to be visable.

 

Another advantage to the method is that the miter joint tricks the eye.  When you sand or cut the toe off at the face of the 90 degree piece and maintain that cut so that it is flush to 90 degree piece you  fool the eye into looking at the  corner where most expect the joint to be and it is not.  It is actually located about 3/8 of an inch from the actually joint on 3/4 or 13/16 stock.   You can also take advantage of this method by it allowing you the flexability to sand the corner round into a full bullnose style.  There is no length to how long this joint can be  and it does not matter what angle you make.  You cut the miter and screw it into the 90 degree piece and you have a almost invisable joint, secured with glue and pocket screws. 

 It might sound tricky but it is really simple once you get behind the saw and cut a few pieces.  You  learn the method very quickly and find that you can make difficult cabinets very easy with two cuts on the saw, the miter cut and a matching 90 degree.  Bore the pocket holes in the 90 degree piece and glue and screw the pocket screws into the miter.  The big thing to remember is bore the holes on the opposite side that you want to expose.  Need more information please ask.  This is one of the most difficult things to do in cabinet or furniture building.  It becomes easy and  simple using this method.

 

  • Jay,i have a question for you on your discussion of miter joints,when i cut a 45 degree on one stile and try to pocket screw to to a 90 degree , I get an extension of approx. 1/16 the full length of the stile, am i missing something or do i just sand that off.

                                                                                                           Thanks ED

Hi Ed just sand this off.  This is the part where you hide the joint by moving the location of where the eye will tell you that it should be.  The thing is that helps hide the joint is that the actual joint is not that the corner.  Glad to have you as a friend.

EDWARD MATTIS said:

  • Jay,i have a question for you on your discussion of miter joints,when i cut a 45 degree on one stile and try to pocket screw to to a 90 degree , I get an extension of approx. 1/16 the full length of the stile, am i missing something or do i just sand that off.

                                                                                                           Thanks ED

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