Need a way to hoist trailer off garage floor. - Kreg Owners' Community2024-03-28T08:49:43Zhttps://kregjig.ning.com/forum/topics/need-a-way-to-hoist-trailer?x=1&id=2900167%3ATopic%3A25681&feed=yes&xn_auth=noMario,
I decided to not buy…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2015-04-09:2900167:Comment:7243722015-04-09T21:54:08.145ZChuck Deckerhttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/ChuckDecker
<p>Mario,</p>
<p></p>
<p>I decided to not buy a trailer. Instead I bought a small, used pickup truck from CarMax. I made a platform that is attached to anchors in the side walls of the pickup bed. It actually is beautiful! I bought the anchors from an auto parts store. The platform is simple. It looks like a very wide ladder. This allows me to put the ladder-shaped contraption on the truck and remove it easily. </p>
<p></p>
<p>It has 2 cross members that fit across the width of the bed and are…</p>
<p>Mario,</p>
<p></p>
<p>I decided to not buy a trailer. Instead I bought a small, used pickup truck from CarMax. I made a platform that is attached to anchors in the side walls of the pickup bed. It actually is beautiful! I bought the anchors from an auto parts store. The platform is simple. It looks like a very wide ladder. This allows me to put the ladder-shaped contraption on the truck and remove it easily. </p>
<p></p>
<p>It has 2 cross members that fit across the width of the bed and are held in place at each corner. I fashioned the cross members by gluing 2, 3/4" x 4" planks of solid wood with a 1/2" plank of baltic birch plywood between them. I routed and chiselled slots at each end so that the end of the laminated board would slip over the bed anchor.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I attached each corner to the bed using 2 Woodpeckers Multi-Knobs, a bolt, a nut and some fender washers. I installed 6 steel threaded inserts along the length of both of the boards on both the top and bottom of each plank. That gives me the ability to turn the cross member boards over when one side is worn out.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Then I made some "T-shaped" 3/4" x 1 1/2" planks that are slotted at each end so that they can be bolted to the inserts of the cross members and not interfere with the smooth surface of the stretcher, which could damage material laying on it. The stretchers run front-to-back of the bed.</p>
<p></p>
<p>When I buy a sheet of plywood or other panelled product, I can lay it on top of the platform and strap it in place. Smaller items can be stored under the platform. The platform is just a few inches above the pickup bed.</p>
<p></p>
<p>When I buy wooden planks or plumbing, they fit nicely between the stretchers and require no special straps (that is, unless they are especially long).</p>
<p></p>
<p>I used to have one of those Harbor Freight folding trailers spoken of by another response above, but it was so VERY HEAVY for me to fold and unfold. So, I had to get rid of it. I think that some of my back pain stems from trying to lift that thing.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I hope you find a safe solution.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Chuck</p>
<p></p> Hi chuck, I'm Mario and I'm n…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2015-04-08:2900167:Comment:7237242015-04-08T13:27:55.174ZMario Menjivarhttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/MarioMenjivar
Hi chuck, I'm Mario and I'm new on this site and I now you posted about a problem you had back in 2010 related with how to lift your trailer against the wall and I am on the same situation, just wondering if you ever finish that project and how you ended doing it? It would be a big help for me. I'm Trying to hoist my 6x12 trailer against a wall pulled by a winch. please let me know if finish and how you did it. Thanks.
Hi chuck, I'm Mario and I'm new on this site and I now you posted about a problem you had back in 2010 related with how to lift your trailer against the wall and I am on the same situation, just wondering if you ever finish that project and how you ended doing it? It would be a big help for me. I'm Trying to hoist my 6x12 trailer against a wall pulled by a winch. please let me know if finish and how you did it. Thanks. Thanks again, Art. You may ha…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2010-03-17:2900167:Comment:263972010-03-17T21:07:59.638ZChuck Deckerhttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/ChuckDecker
Thanks again, Art. You may have saved my life.<br />
<br />
Chuck<br />
<br />
<cite>Art S. Hamilton said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://kregjig.ning.com/forum/topics/need-a-way-to-hoist-trailer?commentId=2900167%3AComment%3A26386&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2900167Comment26386"><div>Chuck, you're on a safer track. My compliments to your sober thinking.<br></br><br></br>You may find that if the trailer is light enough, your idea will work fine, bearing in mind that as the<br></br>trailer is elevating, you'll want a wall…</div>
</blockquote>
Thanks again, Art. You may have saved my life.<br />
<br />
Chuck<br />
<br />
<cite>Art S. Hamilton said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://kregjig.ning.com/forum/topics/need-a-way-to-hoist-trailer?commentId=2900167%3AComment%3A26386&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2900167Comment26386"><div>Chuck, you're on a safer track. My compliments to your sober thinking.<br/><br/>You may find that if the trailer is light enough, your idea will work fine, bearing in mind that as the<br/>trailer is elevating, you'll want a wall protector to deflect the scuffing. I suggest that you buy a<br/>real heavy duty eye-bolt with lag threads for wood, bore a hole in the real McCoy center of the<br/>stud, and wind it in with a tire iron if that's what's available. Drill the hole no larger than 75 per<br/>cent of the lag size, and embed it a couple of inches. Use a stud sensor capable of detecting<br/>buried electrical wires.<br/><br/>If you're not confident about the quality of the single stud, you may want a plate across a couple<br/>of studs instead. To make the simplest pull, attach a single block pulley to the eye-bolt with a<br/>screw-type chain link, again, heavy duty. I suggest you don't even dream of using an aluminum<br/>caribeener, like the ones you see near the cash register at the hardware store. These are not<br/>load-rated. Your second single block pulley will attach to a chain link or machine-thread eye<br/>bolt on the tongue, again with a screw-type chain link. Tie off your HIGH QUALITY nylon rope<br/>to the wall eye bolt using a proper knot, such as a bowline or clove hitch, thread it through the<br/>pulley at the tongue, back up to the pulley on the wall, and back to your standing-well-in-the-<br/>clear self, and you have created a secure and easy to pull rigging.<br/><br/>Once you're flatly and securely vertical, use your safety chain at about mid length, and the second<br/>chain around the tongue, out of the reach of children and brothers-in-law. Cheers.</div>
</blockquote> Chuck, you're on a safer trac…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2010-03-17:2900167:Comment:263862010-03-17T20:51:39.803ZArt S. Hamiltonhttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/ArtSHamilton
Chuck, you're on a safer track. My compliments to your sober thinking.<br />
<br />
You may find that if the trailer is light enough, your idea will work fine, bearing in mind that as the<br />
trailer is elevating, you'll want a wall protector to deflect the scuffing. I suggest that you buy a<br />
real heavy duty eye-bolt with lag threads for wood, bore a hole in the real McCoy center of the<br />
stud, and wind it in with a tire iron if that's what's available. Drill the hole no larger than 75 per<br />
cent of the lag size,…
Chuck, you're on a safer track. My compliments to your sober thinking.<br />
<br />
You may find that if the trailer is light enough, your idea will work fine, bearing in mind that as the<br />
trailer is elevating, you'll want a wall protector to deflect the scuffing. I suggest that you buy a<br />
real heavy duty eye-bolt with lag threads for wood, bore a hole in the real McCoy center of the<br />
stud, and wind it in with a tire iron if that's what's available. Drill the hole no larger than 75 per<br />
cent of the lag size, and embed it a couple of inches. Use a stud sensor capable of detecting<br />
buried electrical wires.<br />
<br />
If you're not confident about the quality of the single stud, you may want a plate across a couple<br />
of studs instead. To make the simplest pull, attach a single block pulley to the eye-bolt with a<br />
screw-type chain link, again, heavy duty. I suggest you don't even dream of using an aluminum<br />
caribeener, like the ones you see near the cash register at the hardware store. These are not<br />
load-rated. Your second single block pulley will attach to a chain link or machine-thread eye<br />
bolt on the tongue, again with a screw-type chain link. Tie off your HIGH QUALITY nylon rope<br />
to the wall eye bolt using a proper knot, such as a bowline or clove hitch, thread it through the<br />
pulley at the tongue, back up to the pulley on the wall, and back to your standing-well-in-the-<br />
clear self, and you have created a secure and easy to pull rigging.<br />
<br />
Once you're flatly and securely vertical, use your safety chain at about mid length, and the second<br />
chain around the tongue, out of the reach of children and brothers-in-law. Cheers. Art,
WOW!
Indeed, you have…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2010-03-17:2900167:Comment:263012010-03-17T19:38:46.885ZChuck Deckerhttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/ChuckDecker
Art,<br />
<br />
WOW!<br />
<br />
Indeed, you have made me "think". Hoisting to the ceiling looks like a bad idea now.<br />
<br />
I had already been considering that I would have to reinforce the ceiling before putting that kind of load on it, and that was looking like the wrong kind of thing for me to be doing.<br />
<br />
So, what do you think about just hoisting the tongue of the trailer up against the wall and then chaining the trailer to the wall for safety? That way the weight would just rest on the floor on some 2x4's.<br />
<br />
Thanks…
Art,<br />
<br />
WOW!<br />
<br />
Indeed, you have made me "think". Hoisting to the ceiling looks like a bad idea now.<br />
<br />
I had already been considering that I would have to reinforce the ceiling before putting that kind of load on it, and that was looking like the wrong kind of thing for me to be doing.<br />
<br />
So, what do you think about just hoisting the tongue of the trailer up against the wall and then chaining the trailer to the wall for safety? That way the weight would just rest on the floor on some 2x4's.<br />
<br />
Thanks for your thinking!<br />
<br />
Chuck<br />
<br />
<br />
<cite>Art S. Hamilton said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://kregjig.ning.com/forum/topics/need-a-way-to-hoist-trailer?commentId=2900167%3AComment%3A26286&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2900167Comment26286"><div>Chuck, think hard about this wish to elevate anything heavier than a canoe, and place a huge value on<br/>everyone's safety.<br/><br/>First, when you find out the weight of the trailer, you then use a simple formula to calculate the lift<br/>required. Divide the weight by the number of pulleys, and you have the pull in pounds needed to<br/>raise. A two hundred pound trailer hoisted on ten combined vertical pulleys, would, in theory,<br/>need only a twenty pound pull. On a single pulley, you would need a two hundred pound pull,<br/>because all you are doing is changing the direction of the rope/cable. Think of a deer hoist,<br/>but go beyond that in some really important ways.<br/><br/>Each pulley, or sheave as I call them, has by nature, friction losses, so your effort is higher than<br/>the simple math. Plus, with each 'turn', you have to double the lenghth of rope used to make<br/>the pull geometry happen.<br/><br/>Second, and most important, is the integrity of the anchor from the ceiling that will have to suffer<br/>the dead load continuously. It should be spread over several trusses to allow more of the ceiling<br/>to absorb the stress, preferably with a grid arrangement.<br/><br/>Third is the rigging itself. I have built a wide number of pulling and hoisting combinations, and<br/>it can take significant time to get a balanced pull. A triangle is the most stable shape, but if the<br/>vertical angle of pull is too flat, the strength of the rope is seriously reduced. If the vertical angle<br/>is gradual and strong, you lose most of your usable floor-to-ceiling height.<br/><br/>All this, including the wall sheaves, tie-offs, and child-proof safety measures can certainly be<br/>done, and it is a prideful accomplilshment when done well.<br/><br/>But an acquaintance attempted just such a project without real forethought, and when standing<br/>under the finished product, and wiggling the trailer from beneath to check it out, a rope let go,<br/>the trailer knocked him down, the u-bolt from the spring hanger pierced his heart, and his wife<br/>came home to a dead husband.<br/><br/>THINK, THINK, THINK. We want you around.</div>
</blockquote> Chuck, think hard about this…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2010-03-17:2900167:Comment:262862010-03-17T19:02:21.083ZArt S. Hamiltonhttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/ArtSHamilton
Chuck, think hard about this wish to elevate anything heavier than a canoe, and place a huge value on<br />
everyone's safety.<br />
<br />
First, when you find out the weight of the trailer, you then use a simple formula to calculate the lift<br />
required. Divide the weight by the number of pulleys, and you have the pull, in pounds, needed to<br />
raise. A two hundred pound trailer hoisted on ten combined vertical pulleys, would, in theory,<br />
need only a twenty pound pull. On a single pulley, you would need a two hundred…
Chuck, think hard about this wish to elevate anything heavier than a canoe, and place a huge value on<br />
everyone's safety.<br />
<br />
First, when you find out the weight of the trailer, you then use a simple formula to calculate the lift<br />
required. Divide the weight by the number of pulleys, and you have the pull, in pounds, needed to<br />
raise. A two hundred pound trailer hoisted on ten combined vertical pulleys, would, in theory,<br />
need only a twenty pound pull. On a single pulley, you would need a two hundred pound pull,<br />
because all you are doing is changing the direction of the rope/cable. Think of a deer hoist,<br />
but go beyond that in some really important ways.<br />
<br />
Each pulley, or sheave as I call them, has by nature, friction losses, so your effort is higher than<br />
the simple math. Plus, with each 'turn', you have to double the lenghth of rope used to make<br />
the pull geometry happen.<br />
<br />
Second, and most important, is the integrity of the anchor from the ceiling that will have to suffer<br />
the dead load continuously. It should be spread over several trusses to allow more of the ceiling<br />
to absorb the stress, preferably with a grid arrangement.<br />
<br />
Third is the rigging itself. I have built a wide number of pulling and hoisting combinations, and<br />
it can take significant time to get a balanced pull. A triangle is the most stable shape, but if the<br />
vertical angle of pull is too flat, the strength of the rope is seriously reduced. If the vertical angle<br />
is gradual and strong, you lose most of your usable floor-to-ceiling height.<br />
<br />
All this, including the wall sheaves, tie-offs, and child-proof safety measures can certainly be<br />
done, and it is a prideful accomplishment when done well.<br />
<br />
But an acquaintance attempted just such a project without real forethought, and when standing<br />
under the finished product, and wiggling the trailer from beneath to check it out, a rope let go,<br />
the trailer knocked him down, the u-bolt from the spring hanger pierced his heart, and his wife<br />
came home to a dead husband.<br />
<br />
THINK, THINK, THINK. We want you around. I think I understand.........…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2010-03-17:2900167:Comment:259992010-03-17T12:26:45.606ZLarwynhttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/LarryMoore
I think I understand..........it is because your wife likes the house................LOL.<br />
<br />
<cite>Chuck Decker said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://kregjig.ning.com/forum/topics/need-a-way-to-hoist-trailer#2900167Comment25960"><div>Larwyn,<br></br><br></br>That makes me laugh. (I needed that.)<br></br><br></br>I think I know what you are trying to say, and I think I would agree with you. Like I said, everything has a "dark side". Our current neighborhood HOA is virtually not there. We have no meetings, no…</div>
</blockquote>
I think I understand..........it is because your wife likes the house................LOL.<br />
<br />
<cite>Chuck Decker said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://kregjig.ning.com/forum/topics/need-a-way-to-hoist-trailer#2900167Comment25960"><div>Larwyn,<br/><br/>That makes me laugh. (I needed that.)<br/><br/>I think I know what you are trying to say, and I think I would agree with you. Like I said, everything has a "dark side". Our current neighborhood HOA is virtually not there. We have no meetings, no leadership, no dues, and no services. We also have no limits. We are free to do whatever and whenever we want. Sounds great.<br/><br/>My wife and I have lived here for 25 years (this year is our silver anniversary!). We are both suffering from chronic pain and sleep syndromes of many kinds. I have lost the sight in one eye, and I take about 2 dozen pills every day just to continue living with my many health problems. Our 5 level, split floor plan is becoming a threat to life and limb. In the first years, I would run up and down all levels just to get another screwdriver to fix something. I could do it all day long too. But things have changed. I have changed.<br/><br/>By moving to the new house with the HOA, we must give up the right to make some choices on our own. For example, we can't put up a basketball goal in the driveway, and no swing sets in the yard. We can’t park junk cars along the side of the house or on the street. We can’t have more than one family living in the house. We can’t have loud, late night parties. We can’t even litter the yard with beer cans, nor can we leave half empty bottles standing in the street. Yep, that’s just asking an awful lot. Man, do I hate HOA’s!<br/><br/>In our current home we have virtually no restrictions. But you know what, neither does anyone else. So, right now, as I write this note, people are starting to gather in the house across the street. By tomorrow afternoon cars and trucks will line both sides of the street. There will be no places left to park. At times they will completely block the flow of traffic because people will stop in the street to talk. Daylight is no reason to bring an end to the festivities either. This time it is St. Patrick’s Day, but there are many other reasons to have a party. In the summer, clothing is optional. Naked dogs and cats will be sleeping together! LOL (At least I can still laugh about it.)<br/><br/>I have cussed at the concept of HOA’s myself, but things have changed and so have I. I still believe that we are all entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, BUT ONLY to the extent that what I am doing does not harm or disturb others around me. For example, I like music, but I might not like to feel my bones tremble in the middle of the night from someone’s over amplified woofer. If it is contained within their own home, no problem. It just isn't right to impose it on others.<br/><br/>If I were young and healthy again, I would simply buy a piece of land with lots of space between houses. Unfortunately that is not an option anymore. So, I must sacrifice some of my rights, and I must pay someone to let me do it. Crazy!<br/><br/>Anyway, I agree with you about HOA’s. (...I think?)<br/><br/>Chuck<br/><br/><br/><br/><cite>Larwyn said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://kregjig.ning.com/forum/topics/need-a-way-to-hoist-trailer?commentId=2900167%3AComment%3A25941&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2900167Comment25941"><div>I'm very sorry to hear that you are saddled with a home owner's association. I had probably best leave it at that, my opinion of HOA's has caused plenty of lively conversation on other discussion groups.<br/><br/>Good luck with that.</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote> Larwyn,
That makes me laugh.…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2010-03-17:2900167:Comment:259602010-03-17T07:41:58.949ZChuck Deckerhttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/ChuckDecker
Larwyn,<br />
<br />
That makes me laugh. (I needed that.)<br />
<br />
I think I know what you are trying to say, and I think I would agree with you. Like I said, everything has a "dark side". Our current neighborhood HOA is virtually not there. We have no meetings, no leadership, no dues, and no services. We also have no limits. We are free to do whatever and whenever we want. Sounds great.<br />
<br />
My wife and I have lived here for 25 years (this year is our silver anniversary!). We are both suffering from chronic pain and…
Larwyn,<br />
<br />
That makes me laugh. (I needed that.)<br />
<br />
I think I know what you are trying to say, and I think I would agree with you. Like I said, everything has a "dark side". Our current neighborhood HOA is virtually not there. We have no meetings, no leadership, no dues, and no services. We also have no limits. We are free to do whatever and whenever we want. Sounds great.<br />
<br />
My wife and I have lived here for 25 years (this year is our silver anniversary!). We are both suffering from chronic pain and sleep syndromes of many kinds. I have lost the sight in one eye, and I take about 2 dozen pills every day just to continue living with my many health problems. Our 5 level, split floor plan is becoming a threat to life and limb. In the first years, I would run up and down all levels just to get another screwdriver to fix something. I could do it all day long too. But things have changed. I have changed.<br />
<br />
By moving to the new house with the HOA, we must give up the right to make some choices on our own. For example, we can't put up a basketball goal in the driveway, and no swing sets in the yard. We can’t park junk cars along the side of the house or on the street. We can’t have more than one family living in the house. We can’t have loud, late night parties. We can’t even litter the yard with beer cans, nor can we leave half empty bottles standing in the street. Yep, that’s just asking an awful lot. Man, do I hate HOA’s!<br />
<br />
In our current home we have virtually no restrictions. But you know what, neither does anyone else. So, right now, as I write this note, people are starting to gather in the house across the street. By tomorrow afternoon cars and trucks will line both sides of the street. There will be no places left to park. At times they will completely block the flow of traffic because people will stop in the street to talk. Daylight is no reason to bring an end to the festivities either. This time it is St. Patrick’s Day, but there are many other reasons to have a party. In the summer, clothing is optional. Naked dogs and cats will be sleeping together! LOL (At least I can still laugh about it.)<br />
<br />
I have cussed at the concept of HOA’s myself, but things have changed and so have I. I still believe that we are all entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, BUT ONLY to the extent that what I am doing does not harm or disturb others around me. For example, I like music, but I might not like to feel my bones tremble in the middle of the night from someone’s over amplified woofer. If it is contained within their own home, no problem. It just isn't right to impose it on others.<br />
<br />
If I were young and healthy again, I would simply buy a piece of land with lots of space between houses. Unfortunately that is not an option anymore. So, I must sacrifice some of my rights, and I must pay someone to let me do it. Crazy!<br />
<br />
Anyway, I agree with you about HOA’s. (...I think?)<br />
<br />
Chuck<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<cite>Larwyn said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://kregjig.ning.com/forum/topics/need-a-way-to-hoist-trailer?commentId=2900167%3AComment%3A25941&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2900167Comment25941"><div>I'm very sorry to hear that you are saddled with a home owner's association. I had probably best leave it at that, my opinion of HOA's has caused plenty of lively conversation on other discussion groups.<br/><br/>Good luck with that.</div>
</blockquote> I'm very sorry to hear that y…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2010-03-17:2900167:Comment:259412010-03-17T04:11:31.646ZLarwynhttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/LarryMoore
I'm very sorry to hear that you are saddled with a home owner's association. I had probably best leave it at that, my opinion of HOA's has caused plenty of lively conversation on other discussion groups.<br />
<br />
Good luck with that.
I'm very sorry to hear that you are saddled with a home owner's association. I had probably best leave it at that, my opinion of HOA's has caused plenty of lively conversation on other discussion groups.<br />
<br />
Good luck with that. Larwyn,
I agree. We each hav…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2010-03-17:2900167:Comment:258972010-03-17T00:50:03.716ZChuck Deckerhttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/ChuckDecker
Larwyn,<br />
<br />
I agree. We each have different situations to work around. In my case, we are retiring to a smaller ranch style house with a 2-car garage. The garage is big enough for 2 cars, but not much more. The home-owners-association will take care of the grass and snow, so no need for lawnmowers and other things like that. I am selling off everything that I don't plan to use anymore. So, it should be easy to pull the 2 cars out of the garage and drop the trailer from the ceiling.<br />
<br />
The…
Larwyn,<br />
<br />
I agree. We each have different situations to work around. In my case, we are retiring to a smaller ranch style house with a 2-car garage. The garage is big enough for 2 cars, but not much more. The home-owners-association will take care of the grass and snow, so no need for lawnmowers and other things like that. I am selling off everything that I don't plan to use anymore. So, it should be easy to pull the 2 cars out of the garage and drop the trailer from the ceiling.<br />
<br />
The association will not allow anybody to store things outside. (There is always a "dark side", isn't there?)<br />
<br />
Chuck<br />
<br />
<br />
<br />
<cite>Larwyn said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://kregjig.ning.com/forum/topics/need-a-way-to-hoist-trailer?commentId=2900167%3AComment%3A25824&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2900167Comment25824"><div>I did that on a much smaller scale for a very short time. I used a couple of rope and pulley systems designed for bicycles and ladders to raise the little John Deere 10P Utility Cart (approx 75 pounds empty) to the ceiling in my garage. For me it was not at all convenient as I had to move everything that was under it before lowering it to the ground. That plus the added trouble of lowering and lifting the cart every time I used it influenced my decision to just park it behind my backyard shop and leave it outside. I use it a lot more often now that all I have to do is hook it up to the tractor and go. The little cart does not look new any more but it has certainly earned it's keep. These days even the little tractor spends a lot of days outside. I have come to the conclusion that the reason I own equipment is to make life easier for me, I believe in taking reasonable care of that equipment, but no longer spend a lot of time, energy and money trying to keep that equipment looking unused. If it ain't scratched, dinged, faded and or dirty, it probably ain't earning it's keep.</div>
</blockquote>