Correct screw length for this joint

[Joe]

I'm going to join 2x4's, such that the pocket holes will go into the 3.5" side of one piece and this will be attached to the 1.5" side of the other piece. 

I know that if the 3.5" side was going into another 3.5" side, I should use 2 1/2" screws. Seems like my application would be best served by slightly longer screws, but I can't find pocket hole screws longer than 2 1/2". Would these work ok?

[Ken Darga]

Joe, 

I was given a HF pocket hole jig---tried it---didn't work to my satisfaction---too many joinery issues---got rid of it---bought the Kreg Jigs, and haven't looked back.

They're the best on todays market.

To date I have several different Kreg pocket hole jigs.

The Kreg pocket hole joinery comes out great everytime.

Makes simple, easy and fast joinery.

[Dennis Baker]

This is interesting I did not know that the HD screws were that much larger in diameter the length is the same it looks like but they are bigger in diameter aren't they? Looks like they would hold better in 2x material. Thanks for sharing the picks I might have to go buy an HD unit for my Kreg Jig K4 system. I use 2x's a lot.

[Joe]

james wilhelm said:

HI Joe , did take some measurement,s  and added a few pics. , from the front edge of pocket hole it is 2 " to the edge of board , from the edge of pocket hole to the head of screw it is 3/4 " and that should give you about 1 " of wood left  in the hole to the end of board edge , no light showing through the hole !! Also added a pocket hole with my HD Jig  and a  2 1/2 " screw in the middle , comes out about the same as the other 2 1/2 " screw !!!  Don,t know what else to tell you except to get or try a kreg K 4 or K 5  and see what happens , good luck , JIM !!

Thanks Jim. The big difference seems to be where the jigs start the pocket holes. Your pic shows 2" from leading edge of pocket hole to edge of board. The equivalent measurement I'm getting is only 0.8".

That would explain why I'm getting much more of the screw coming out of the first board - in fact, even a portion of the unthreaded shank of the screw comes out of the first board. I could adjust for that by setting the collar on the step bit a little lower - that would keep the entire unthreaded shank in the first board. But I suppose given the location of entry of the bit into the board, I'd still need to use a shorter screw than what you'd use with a Kreg jig.

[Joe]

Ken Darga said:

Joe, 

I was given a HF pocket hole jig---tried it---didn't work to my satisfaction---too many joinery issues---

Can you elaborate?

[Ken Darga]

Joe,

The HF jig doesn't offer the features that the Kreg Jigs provides.

Obtain the Keg jig do a comparison and you'll see the outcome.

Joe said:

Ken Darga said:

Joe, 

I was given a HF pocket hole jig---tried it---didn't work to my satisfaction---too many joinery issues---

Can you elaborate?

[Joe]

Ken Darga said:

Joe,

The HF jig doesn't offer the features that the Kreg Jigs provides.

Obtain the Keg jig do a comparison and you'll see the outcome.

Joe said:

Ken Darga said:

Joe, 

I was given a HF pocket hole jig---tried it---didn't work to my satisfaction---too many joinery issues---

Can you elaborate?

I asked for elaboration so that I wouldn't have to spend $100 on a jig just to make the comparison.

[james wilhelm]

HI Joe , some times woodcraft has some classes or demo,s on the Kreg Jig, may be worth the trip to see how the Kreg Jig work,s  , before you invest in one , also would like to see a pic. of your HF Jig  , if you do not mind , as I have not seen or used one  , just interested in their set up , have a good day , JIM !!!!

Joe said:

james wilhelm said:

HI Joe , did take some measurement,s  and added a few pics. , from the front edge of pocket hole it is 2 " to the edge of board , from the edge of pocket hole to the head of screw it is 3/4 " and that should give you about 1 " of wood left  in the hole to the end of board edge , no light showing through the hole !! Also added a pocket hole with my HD Jig  and a  2 1/2 " screw in the middle , comes out about the same as the other 2 1/2 " screw !!!  Don,t know what else to tell you except to get or try a kreg K 4 or K 5  and see what happens , good luck , JIM !!

Thanks Jim. The big difference seems to be where the jigs start the pocket holes. Your pic shows 2" from leading edge of pocket hole to edge of board. The equivalent measurement I'm getting is only 0.8".

That would explain why I'm getting much more of the screw coming out of the first board - in fact, even a portion of the unthreaded shank of the screw comes out of the first board. I could adjust for that by setting the collar on the step bit a little lower - that would keep the entire unthreaded shank in the first board. But I suppose given the location of entry of the bit into the board, I'd still need to use a shorter screw than what you'd use with a Kreg jig.

[Joe]

james wilhelm said:

HI Joe , some times woodcraft has some classes or demo,s on the Kreg Jig, may be worth the trip to see how the Kreg Jig work,s  , before you invest in one , also would like to see a pic. of your HF Jig  , if you do not mind , as I have not seen or used one  , just interested in their set up , have a good day , JIM !!!!

Jim, here's a video review of the HF jig: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk_9UdSSsKw

The reviewer covers some of the weaknesses, but one thing he doesn't mention is the cutaway in the drill guide. Notice the gap between the drill guide and the workpiece where the pocket hole will be made. I believe this contributes to tearout, and you can see the tearout in the reviewer's workpiece. Looking at pics of the Kreg, it seems the Kreg jig does a much better job of supporting the workpiece around the area the pocket hole will be made, which I have to assume leads to less tearout.

I completed a project with this jig and tearout wasn't bad (less than in the video, could be differences in material or his drill bit could be fairly well worn, which I think he mentions), but I didn't care either way as the pocket holes were all hidden. But for a project where the pocket holes are going to be seen, and especially where they are going to be made a feature, the tearout would be a big issue.

As it relates to the issue we've been discussing, note how close to the end of the workpiece the pocket holes are made. So anyone using this jig is going to have to use shorter screws than what Kreg suggests for their jigs and any particular joint.

[james wilhelm]

HI Joe, thanks for the link on  the video, a pic. is worth a thousand words  and the video was better !! I can now see why you would need shorter screw,s , as they are much closer to the edge of the board !!!  It dose look like a solid jig , being metal and should last for a long time !!  Looks like you only have two basic thickness setting,s  and the 1 1/2' guide is at a bit of a taper  , compared to the 3/4 " guide , have you tried to drill any 1/2 boards with this jig ??  Also did seem to have a good bit of tear out on the pocket holes , but that could have been a dull bit !! Did see one comment , that you could not take the KREG jigs out of their bases and clamp  them to the board , this is not correct , as I have the K 4 , the HD the jounioe,  the mini , the micro   and the all can be clamped right to the board you are drilling !!!  Thank,s again for the link , it explains a lot of the question,s I had , enjoy your jig and happy wood working , JIM !!

Joe said:

james wilhelm said:

HI Joe , some times woodcraft has some classes or demo,s on the Kreg Jig, may be worth the trip to see how the Kreg Jig work,s  , before you invest in one , also would like to see a pic. of your HF Jig  , if you do not mind , as I have not seen or used one  , just interested in their set up , have a good day , JIM !!!!

Jim, here's a video review of the HF jig: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk_9UdSSsKw

The reviewer covers some of the weaknesses, but one thing he doesn't mention is the cutaway in the drill guide. Notice the gap between the drill guide and the workpiece where the pocket hole will be made. I believe this contributes to tearout, and you can see the tearout in the reviewer's workpiece. Looking at pics of the Kreg, it seems the Kreg jig does a much better job of supporting the workpiece around the area the pocket hole will be made, which I have to assume leads to less tearout.

I completed a project with this jig and tearout wasn't bad (less than in the video, could be differences in material or his drill bit could be fairly well worn, which I think he mentions), but I didn't care either way as the pocket holes were all hidden. But for a project where the pocket holes are going to be seen, and especially where they are going to be made a feature, the tearout would be a big issue.

As it relates to the issue we've been discussing, note how close to the end of the workpiece the pocket holes are made. So anyone using this jig is going to have to use shorter screws than what Kreg suggests for their jigs and any particular joint.

[Joe]

There are actually 3 thickness settings:
1. 1 1/2" and 1 1/4"
2. 1" and 3/4"
3. 1/2"

I imagine they cut some costs by sharing drill guides for multiple thicknesses, so instead of having the screw come out of the first piece and enter the second piece at the very center of the board, it will be off a little.

For 1/2", there are a couple of setscrews that thread into the base of the drill guide and you let the 1/2" ply sit on those screws as you clamp it. I haven't tried this yet. My friend doesn't need the jig back anytime soon, so I'll probably come up with some other small projects to do especially since I picked up a Kreg right angle clamp for the last project (quite a handy little tool) and have a bunch of Kreg screws, and I'm curious how this jig fares with 3/4" and 1/2" ply.

Like the Kreg, the HF jig also comes with a portable bracket that you can attach the drill guides to.

Thanks again for taking the time drill a few pocket holes and take measurements and pics!


james wilhelm said:

HI Joe, thanks for the link on  the video, a pic. is worth a thousand words  and the video was better !! I can now see why you would need shorter screw,s , as they are much closer to the edge of the board !!!  It dose look like a solid jig , being metal and should last for a long time !!  Looks like you only have two basic thickness setting,s  and the 1 1/2' guide is at a bit of a taper  , compared to the 3/4 " guide , have you tried to drill any 1/2 boards with this jig ??  Also did seem to have a good bit of tear out on the pocket holes , but that could have been a dull bit !! Did see one comment , that you could not take the KREG jigs out of their bases and clamp  them to the board , this is not correct , as I have the K 4 , the HD the jounioe,  the mini , the micro   and the all can be clamped right to the board you are drilling !!!  Thank,s again for the link , it explains a lot of the question,s I had , enjoy your jig and happy wood working , JIM !!

Joe said:

james wilhelm said:

HI Joe , some times woodcraft has some classes or demo,s on the Kreg Jig, may be worth the trip to see how the Kreg Jig work,s  , before you invest in one , also would like to see a pic. of your HF Jig  , if you do not mind , as I have not seen or used one  , just interested in their set up , have a good day , JIM !!!!

Jim, here's a video review of the HF jig: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk_9UdSSsKw

The reviewer covers some of the weaknesses, but one thing he doesn't mention is the cutaway in the drill guide. Notice the gap between the drill guide and the workpiece where the pocket hole will be made. I believe this contributes to tearout, and you can see the tearout in the reviewer's workpiece. Looking at pics of the Kreg, it seems the Kreg jig does a much better job of supporting the workpiece around the area the pocket hole will be made, which I have to assume leads to less tearout.

I completed a project with this jig and tearout wasn't bad (less than in the video, could be differences in material or his drill bit could be fairly well worn, which I think he mentions), but I didn't care either way as the pocket holes were all hidden. But for a project where the pocket holes are going to be seen, and especially where they are going to be made a feature, the tearout would be a big issue.

As it relates to the issue we've been discussing, note how close to the end of the workpiece the pocket holes are made. So anyone using this jig is going to have to use shorter screws than what Kreg suggests for their jigs and any particular joint.