Cabinet doors with Kreg Jig - Kreg Owners' Community2024-03-28T17:15:07Zhttps://kregjig.ning.com/forum/topics/cabinet-doors-with-kreg-jig?id=2900167%3ATopic%3A597329&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI started using Formby's Tung…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2014-03-08:2900167:Comment:6046322014-03-08T03:48:38.124ZRickhttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/Rick98
<p>I started using Formby's Tung Oil years ago when the only alternative I had was brushed poly. Then I discovered Waterlox which I thought was an enhanced version for floors. The literature says they have to "cook" the product so that it hardens and dries quickly. It has other issues though, like congealing over time even with Bloxygen added.</p>
<p>I know what you mean about TO on maple -- its beautiful. I found a nice old piece of maple counter almost 2 in thick at the used material shop,…</p>
<p>I started using Formby's Tung Oil years ago when the only alternative I had was brushed poly. Then I discovered Waterlox which I thought was an enhanced version for floors. The literature says they have to "cook" the product so that it hardens and dries quickly. It has other issues though, like congealing over time even with Bloxygen added.</p>
<p>I know what you mean about TO on maple -- its beautiful. I found a nice old piece of maple counter almost 2 in thick at the used material shop, and used it in my new family room. The whole room is painted flat panels with a touch of maple on all the horizontal surfaces -- mantle, c'tops, window seat and sill. Really nice.</p>
<p>I think I stole all my design ideas from this forum. It looks great -- exceeding all my expectations. I probably should post some pics. The fireplace surround was my first Kreg project, then kept going with the rest of the built ins.<br/> <br/> <cite>Russ Haynes said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://kregjig.ning.com/forum/topics/cabinet-doors-with-kreg-jig?id=2900167%3ATopic%3A597329&page=4#2900167Comment604505"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I use Waterlox a lot because I love how it looks on maple, and I do a lot of work in maple -- it's my favorite species. But yeah, it's super expensive, which is another reason I mix my own now. Waterlox is just tung oil, BLO, varnish, and mineral spirits. Of course you have to play with it a bit until you get the proportions down, but you can mix your own Waterlox for a tiny fraction of the cost of a quart bought with the Waterlox label on it. And your run-in with Rockler's TO is another great indication why mixing your own is a good idea -- it says "Tung Oil," which it is. Which is why it doesn't harden -- it's just an oil. But people are so used to things labeled as TO not really being TO, they're more often an oil-varnish blend. The Minwax TO hardens -- because it has polyurethane in with the TO! I love oil-varnish blends, they're a great way to add a little color, pop the grain, then have the finish harden to a nice sheen and level of protection. But I don't think something that isn't TO should be marketed as TO. The TO in my shop is 100% pure TO, nothing added. Just like the BLO -- nothing added. When you want just plain TO on something, you can put it on, but if you want a hardened finish, Arm-R-Seal, pure TO, and mineral spirits. Just be sure to mix enough for complete/multiple coats -- unless you're using a scale, it's nearly impossible to recreate the exact finish every time, especially when you figure in evaporation, etc.</p>
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</blockquote> These doors were a great lear…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2014-03-08:2900167:Comment:6048062014-03-08T03:17:20.255ZRickhttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/Rick98
<p>These doors were a great learning for me, since they were my first attempt at frame and panel. After I got them installed on the bath cabinet, I quickly learned the difference between frameless full overlay and frameless half overlay, and obviously I had the wrong ones. Fortunately Rockler exchanged them for me or I would have had to trim both doors, reroute the edges, re-prime, and re-paint.</p>
<p>And I added a third hinge to both doors.</p>
<p>I'd have to say that the whole process was…</p>
<p>These doors were a great learning for me, since they were my first attempt at frame and panel. After I got them installed on the bath cabinet, I quickly learned the difference between frameless full overlay and frameless half overlay, and obviously I had the wrong ones. Fortunately Rockler exchanged them for me or I would have had to trim both doors, reroute the edges, re-prime, and re-paint.</p>
<p>And I added a third hinge to both doors.</p>
<p>I'd have to say that the whole process was a tremendous confidence builder for me.</p>
<p>Thanks for all the help!<br/> <br/> <cite>Russ Haynes said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://kregjig.ning.com/forum/topics/cabinet-doors-with-kreg-jig?x=1&id=2900167%3ATopic%3A597329&page=2#2900167Comment601546"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Nice doors, Rick. Yeah, pocket holes would be easier, but they wouldn't have that nice inside profile. If you want an inside profile on pocket-hole-joined-doors, you'd have to make a stopped cut on the router table, then cope the joints with a 45 router bit or on the table saw, get them EXACTLY right, then put them together with pocket screws. Or, you put them together without the panel, rout your profile around the inside, which makes a curved profile in the corners at the joints, disassemble, put in your panel, then reassemble. If they're plain doors, yep, pocket holes are way easier. If they're some kind of profiled door, cope and stick glue joints are still the way to go. The complimentary router bits are expensive, but eliminate the need for making mitered cuts on your inside profiles. I'm the biggest Kreg fan on the planet -- have at least one of almost everything they sell and swear by it all. I use pocket holes in almost every project I build. But some things are still best done the "old" way because there's no other way to do it. Again, sweet doors. Make sure you put three hinges on those!</p>
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</blockquote> Had to post this -- Marc Spag…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2014-03-07:2900167:Comment:6045972014-03-07T20:23:16.403ZRuss Hayneshttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/RussHaynes
<p>Had to post this -- <a href="http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/finishing-simply-put-by-charles-neil/" target="_blank">Marc Spagnuolo's take on Charles Neil's book on finishing</a>. </p>
<p>Had to post this -- <a href="http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/articles/finishing-simply-put-by-charles-neil/" target="_blank">Marc Spagnuolo's take on Charles Neil's book on finishing</a>. </p> Rick said:
I hear what…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2014-03-07:2900167:Comment:6045052014-03-07T16:09:31.943ZRuss Hayneshttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/RussHaynes
<p><br></br> <br></br> <cite>Rick said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://kregjig.ning.com/forum/topics/cabinet-doors-with-kreg-jig?commentId=2900167%3AComment%3A604672&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2900167Comment602822"><div class="xg_user_generated"><p></p>
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<blockquote cite="http://kregjig.ning.com/forum/topics/cabinet-doors-with-kreg-jig?commentId=2900167%3AComment%3A604672&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2900167Comment602822"><div class="xg_user_generated"><p> I hear what you are…</p>
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<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Rick said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://kregjig.ning.com/forum/topics/cabinet-doors-with-kreg-jig?commentId=2900167%3AComment%3A604672&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2900167Comment602822"><div class="xg_user_generated"><p></p>
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<blockquote cite="http://kregjig.ning.com/forum/topics/cabinet-doors-with-kreg-jig?commentId=2900167%3AComment%3A604672&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2900167Comment602822"><div class="xg_user_generated"><p> I hear what you are saying about Tung oil. I did my floors in Waterlox. After the EPA regulations hit us, Waterlox is only available in quarts, costing almost $30 each. I had some of Rockler's Tung Oil but it never hardened so I pitched it.</p>
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<div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I use Waterlox a lot because I love how it looks on maple, and I do a lot of work in maple -- it's my favorite species. But yeah, it's super expensive, which is another reason I mix my own now. Waterlox is just tung oil, BLO, varnish, and mineral spirits. Of course you have to play with it a bit until you get the proportions down, but you can mix your own Waterlox for a tiny fraction of the cost of a quart bought with the Waterlox label on it. And your run-in with Rockler's TO is another great indication why mixing your own is a good idea -- it says "Tung Oil," which it is. Which is why it doesn't harden -- it's just an oil. But people are so used to things labeled as TO not really being TO, they're more often an oil-varnish blend. The Minwax TO hardens -- because it has polyurethane in with the TO! I love oil-varnish blends, they're a great way to add a little color, pop the grain, then have the finish harden to a nice sheen and level of protection. But I don't think something that isn't TO should be marketed as TO. The TO in my shop is 100% pure TO, nothing added. Just like the BLO -- nothing added. When you want just plain TO on something, you can put it on, but if you want a hardened finish, Arm-R-Seal, pure TO, and mineral spirits. Just be sure to mix enough for complete/multiple coats -- unless you're using a scale, it's nearly impossible to recreate the exact finish every time, especially when you figure in evaporation, etc.</p>
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<blockquote cite="http://kregjig.ning.com/forum/topics/cabinet-doors-with-kreg-jig?commentId=2900167%3AComment%3A604672&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2900167Comment602822"><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>My brother just relocated from NYC to Leesburg area and loves it there. Never seen anyone so happy. Must be a great place to live. </p>
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<div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Leesburg is beautiful -- great historic downtown. That area is really developing quickly, new housing developments and an outlet mall. But compared to NYC he must feel like he's in the boondocks!</p>
</div> There is nothing wrong with a…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2014-03-07:2900167:Comment:6046722014-03-07T15:56:45.145ZJay Boutwellhttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/JayBoutwell
<p>There is nothing wrong with a Kreg screwed joint in a cabinet door as long as it is properly done. Personally I do not use them due to the pocket holes left in the back of the door are objectionable to the customers that I have in custom cabinets work. The Kreg joints are strong, easy and fast to do and a great method for beginning wood workers who do not have the tooling to build other types. </p>
<p>When doing the Kreg screw doors, the stronger are the ply wood panels as they can be…</p>
<p>There is nothing wrong with a Kreg screwed joint in a cabinet door as long as it is properly done. Personally I do not use them due to the pocket holes left in the back of the door are objectionable to the customers that I have in custom cabinets work. The Kreg joints are strong, easy and fast to do and a great method for beginning wood workers who do not have the tooling to build other types. </p>
<p>When doing the Kreg screw doors, the stronger are the ply wood panels as they can be glued to the frames since plywood does move from humidity changes. However I would not glue a solid wood panel into the frames as they will expand and blow the door apart due to the humidity changes. </p>
<p>The danger is doing the dado's or grooves for the panels require the lowering and raising of the stiles onto a table saw cutting blade or a slot cutter on a router table, at a precise point so that the groove will not show on the ends of the doors. It would require plugging the ends of the doors where the stiles joint the rails if you choose to run the stiles all the way down the stile length. The rails can be cut the full length and the only problem here is the positioning of the pocket hole in the rail as you need to bore the pocket hole in a location that the groove does not comprise the strength of the joint.</p>
<p>The heavy raised panel door will be the weakest of the two when compared to the flat panel door due to the weight of the panel material.</p>
<p>I have seen several kreg joint doors of which are actually beautiful and from the front of the door look the same as a cope and stick door. There is one Kreg community member whom makes all of his doors using the Kreg screw method and they are outstanding examples of craftsmanship. This would be David Dean. Since his doors have lasted several years, he should be considered an authority on building this type of door. </p> HANDY TIP:
Surface Prep:
Use…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2014-02-27:2900167:Comment:6031612014-02-27T14:27:46.250ZKen Dargahttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/KenDarga
<p><strong>HANDY TIP:</strong></p>
<p>Surface Prep:</p>
<p>Use a card scraper, without a burnished edge.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Hold the card scraper at about a 85 degree angle from the surface, and make light repeated passes, 'til the imperfections have been removed.</p>
<p>Cleaning the surface, using a "card scraper", to remove any surface imperfections---</p>
<p>such as paint, clear coat runs/drips/bubbles, and any minute particles that may have settled on the surface.</p>
<p></p>
<p><br></br> <cite>Ken…</cite></p>
<p><strong>HANDY TIP:</strong></p>
<p>Surface Prep:</p>
<p>Use a card scraper, without a burnished edge.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Hold the card scraper at about a 85 degree angle from the surface, and make light repeated passes, 'til the imperfections have been removed.</p>
<p>Cleaning the surface, using a "card scraper", to remove any surface imperfections---</p>
<p>such as paint, clear coat runs/drips/bubbles, and any minute particles that may have settled on the surface.</p>
<p></p>
<p><br/> <cite>Ken Darga said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://kregjig.ning.com/forum/topics/cabinet-doors-with-kreg-jig?xg_source=activity&id=2900167%3ATopic%3A597329&page=3#2900167Comment601621"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>The following gets off the subject matter, however, is useful info.</p>
<p></p>
<p>After sanding, the sanding dust MUST be removed, before proceeding with sealing/priming.</p>
<p>Dampen a clean "white" cloth material---</p>
<p>a. with clean water, when applying a water-based finish </p>
<p>b. with mineral spirits, when appling an oil-based finish</p>
<p>c. with denatured alcohol, when applying shellac</p>
<p></p>
<p>Allow surfaces to dry before proceeding to the next step. </p>
<p></p>
<p><strong>NOTE</strong>: <strong>DO NOT</strong> apply oil-based or shellac-based material over water-based material.</p>
<p>Water-based material may be applied over oil or shellac base material---NOT the reverse.</p>
<p></p>
<p><b>Zinsser Bulls Eye</b> <b>SealCoat</b> Sanding Sealer--- a wax-free <em><b>shellac</b></em> sealer</p>
<p><b>Zinsser B-I-N Primer/Sealer---</b>a <em><strong>shellac-</strong>based</em> white-pigmented primer-sealer</p>
<p><b>Zinsser Bulls Eye 1-2-3</b> Primer/Sealer---a<b> </b><em><strong>water-</strong>base</em> primer</p>
<p><b>Zinsser Primer-Sealers and Stain Blockers---</b> an <em><strong>oil</strong></em> -base</p>
<p></p>
<p><strong>NOTE</strong>: Refer to the OEM's applicable directions, applications and uses.</p>
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</blockquote> I saw some of Neil's work on…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2014-02-26:2900167:Comment:6028222014-02-26T15:59:39.685ZRickhttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/Rick98
<p>I saw some of Neil's work on the gallery slideshow -- just beautiful. The website indicated that after his magic potion is applied, you are actually staining it, and not the wood, which is quite ingenious. Hopefully his pre-stain will become more readily available. He really ought to patent it and then allow Rockler or others to market it.</p>
<p>I hear what you are saying about Tung oil. I did my floors in Waterlox. After the EPA regulations hit us, Waterlox is only available in…</p>
<p>I saw some of Neil's work on the gallery slideshow -- just beautiful. The website indicated that after his magic potion is applied, you are actually staining it, and not the wood, which is quite ingenious. Hopefully his pre-stain will become more readily available. He really ought to patent it and then allow Rockler or others to market it.</p>
<p>I hear what you are saying about Tung oil. I did my floors in Waterlox. After the EPA regulations hit us, Waterlox is only available in quarts, costing almost $30 each. I had some of Rockler's Tung Oil but it never hardened so I pitched it.</p>
<p>My brother just relocated from NYC to Leesburg area and loves it there. Never seen anyone so happy. Must be a great place to live. </p>
<p><cite>Russ Haynes said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://kregjig.ning.com/forum/topics/cabinet-doors-with-kreg-jig?page=3&commentId=2900167%3AComment%3A602515&x=1#2900167Comment602515"><div><div class="xg_user_generated">Charles Neil is a true master, a local hero asking WWrs here in VA, and more than a bit of a personal hero. His work is truly amazing. We're all lucky that he's also willing to share his experience with us. <br/> <br/> After I did that I started mixing my own tung oil varnish blend too - just tung oil, varnish, and mineral spirits. Way cheaper than pre-mixed and you know exactly what is in it</div>
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</blockquote> LMAO - that's funny. Charles…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2014-02-26:2900167:Comment:6025152014-02-26T04:07:07.425ZRuss Hayneshttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/RussHaynes
LMAO - that's funny. Charles Neil is a true master, a local hero asking WWrs here in VA, and more than a bit of a personal hero. His work is truly amazing. We're all lucky that he's also willing to share his experience with us. He's a much sought after resource on finishing and one of the few guys I've ever seen make a pine project look like high-grade hardwood. I know the prestain is some concoction of CA glue, but I'm more than happy to use what he's developed and support his work.<br />
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Yeah I…
LMAO - that's funny. Charles Neil is a true master, a local hero asking WWrs here in VA, and more than a bit of a personal hero. His work is truly amazing. We're all lucky that he's also willing to share his experience with us. He's a much sought after resource on finishing and one of the few guys I've ever seen make a pine project look like high-grade hardwood. I know the prestain is some concoction of CA glue, but I'm more than happy to use what he's developed and support his work.<br />
<br />
Yeah I usually use pine for stuff that is going to be painted too. I was apprehensive about mixing my own finish but it's actually really easy and much more adjustable than pre-mixed. After I did that I started mixing my own tung oil varnish blend too - just tung oil, varnish, and mineral spirits. Way cheaper than pre-mixed and you know exactly what is in it!<br />
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Let me know what you think of the Kilz. And if you're ever feeling adventurous, msg me with your address and I'll send you some garnet shellac flakes you can mess around with. Thanks for the tip on CN's Pr…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2014-02-26:2900167:Comment:6027142014-02-26T02:25:09.390ZRickhttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/Rick98
<p>Thanks for the tip on CN's Pre-Stain. Looks like a garage operation though, with limited availability. Looks like he is using a diluted glue wash.</p>
<p>Think I'll try the Kilz on my next project.</p>
<p>I have used the Minwax pre-conditioner, and thought it was a joke, like I got some bad product. That's why I usually paint pine, even the select stuff I got. </p>
<p>I'm not sure if I'm ready to mix shellac flakes. ;-)<br></br> <br></br> <cite>Russ Haynes said:…</cite></p>
<p>Thanks for the tip on CN's Pre-Stain. Looks like a garage operation though, with limited availability. Looks like he is using a diluted glue wash.</p>
<p>Think I'll try the Kilz on my next project.</p>
<p>I have used the Minwax pre-conditioner, and thought it was a joke, like I got some bad product. That's why I usually paint pine, even the select stuff I got. </p>
<p>I'm not sure if I'm ready to mix shellac flakes. ;-)<br/> <br/> <cite>Russ Haynes said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://kregjig.ning.com/forum/topics/cabinet-doors-with-kreg-jig?commentId=2900167%3AComment%3A602570&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2900167Comment602570"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p> Just make sure if you stain it you use <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.cn-woodworking.com/cn-pre-color-conditioner/" target="_blank">Charles Neil's blotch control pre-stain</a>. Yeah, Minwax makes a prestain conditioner . . . trust me, they're not even close. If you're staining pine, it's well worth it to use CN's stuff.</p>
<p>Yeah man, try the Kilz -- I swear by that stuff. </p>
<p>Best way to preserve shellac is to either use it quickly if you buy it in cans or buy the flakes. I buy dewaxed shellac in flake form now and mix it with denatured alcohol I buy in gallons from the Orange Store. </p>
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</blockquote> That does look like some nice…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2014-02-25:2900167:Comment:6025702014-02-25T17:19:04.194ZRuss Hayneshttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/RussHaynes
<p>That does look like some nice lumber. I love the old stuff because it's moisture content has reached the point where it's going to be and if it's going to move, then it's moved. That all looks like plainsawn pine, but since it's not stickered up, the wider boards will have a tendency to cup a bit in the direction of the grain once the weight of the boards on top is removed. You can see the bottom three boards have started to cup a bit already despite the weight. Wood movement is a…</p>
<p>That does look like some nice lumber. I love the old stuff because it's moisture content has reached the point where it's going to be and if it's going to move, then it's moved. That all looks like plainsawn pine, but since it's not stickered up, the wider boards will have a tendency to cup a bit in the direction of the grain once the weight of the boards on top is removed. You can see the bottom three boards have started to cup a bit already despite the weight. Wood movement is a powerful force. I hear ya on Lowes' plywood -- some of that stuff is NASTY. Any they leave it there on the shelf waiting for someone to buy it. I guess people do eventually. That 1x8 (fourth board down from top) looks nice -- has most of the grain pattern running across. That should be a pretty stable board. Nice stuff, looks pretty knot free. Just make sure if you stain it you use<a href="http://www.cn-woodworking.com/cn-pre-color-conditioner/" target="_blank">Charles Neil's blotch control pre-stain</a>. Yeah, Minwax makes a prestain conditioner . . . trust me, they're not even close. If you're staining pine, it's well worth it to use CN's stuff.</p>
<p></p>
<p>Yeah man, try the Kilz -- I swear by that stuff. I've used it in places where the previous resident has smoked like a chimney and the Kilz just seals everything up nice and tight -- you can't even tell. Best way to preserve shellac is to either use it quickly if you buy it in cans or buy the flakes. I buy dewaxed shellac in flake form now and mix it with denatured alcohol I buy in gallons from the Orange Store. It's a lot cheaper and the flakes don't degrade like pre-mixed shellac does. The other nice thing is that the pre-mixed shellac always seems to me like a pretty heavy cut. To spray it on or put it on more gradually in order to get a more even finish, I almost always wind up cutting the pre-mixed shellac anyway. When I shellac furniture now (which I haven't been doing very much of -- been on sort of an oil/varnish blend kick lately), I french polish, for which a lighter cut seems to work much better. There's also a much wider variety of colors available in flake shellac. Just pick your color, decide how heavy you want the cut, mix it up in a little squeeze bottle, and you're off. If it congeals a bit in the bottle, put in some more alcohol. I don't even clean my shellac brushes anymore -- as soon as you reintroduce hardened shellac to alcohol, it dissolve all over again. That's why multiple coats work so well, the new coat actually dissolves the previous coat a bit, then binds itself all together.</p>