Building Flat Panel Doors on a Router Table - Kreg Owners' Community2024-03-28T10:40:25Zhttps://kregjig.ning.com/forum/topics/building-flat-panel-doors-on-a-router-table?commentId=2900167%3AComment%3A765935&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI did get my table saw adjust…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2015-10-04:2900167:Comment:7659352015-10-04T04:28:27.824ZStephanie Hhttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/StephanieH
<p>I did get my table saw adjusted. Friends hubby came over, we took the back panel off and had to loosen three of the four bolts holding the saw to adjust it back. Must be the vibration over time? Not sure why it went out of alignment. But he tightened it up super tight this time. </p>
<p>I have no plans to change the cabinets in my kitchen, other then the one over the frig. Funny you mentioned that. I want to move it forward so you can actually get to it. Stupid design. Never…</p>
<p>I did get my table saw adjusted. Friends hubby came over, we took the back panel off and had to loosen three of the four bolts holding the saw to adjust it back. Must be the vibration over time? Not sure why it went out of alignment. But he tightened it up super tight this time. </p>
<p>I have no plans to change the cabinets in my kitchen, other then the one over the frig. Funny you mentioned that. I want to move it forward so you can actually get to it. Stupid design. Never understand it. But the main thing, is that I am moving my washer/dryer from the garage into a new room inside the house. Cabinets are a must. It is an 8 1/2 x 6 ft room. Looking forward to making basic cabinets in that room for mostly storage, etc. It is the added space off the kitchen that I want to make cabinets more custom for overflow kitchen stuff. I don't need high-end, just nice and matching the kitchen cabinets that I have. I really like them, they are simple. Definite added value, but I am doing it more for me. I have a small kitchen, which is fine, I just need storage for those things that I need but do not use that often. I am more concerned with spending the money on the new kitchen cabinets vs the ones for the laundry room. I want them to look the same, since the bathroom also has the same cabinets as the kitchen. Might as well make everything match. I need to find out cost and see if the extra money for solid wood is much different. If not, going that route would be my preferred method. Two of my challenges is figuring out the cabinet layout for the laundry room. I want to include a tall cabinet to accommodate my vacuum, hot mop, etc. Would like to get that out of the coat closet. But I am not sure with how the washer/drier is going in, if what space I have left will allow it. My second challenge is figuring out the layout of the kitchen cabinets. I have appliances and baking stuff that I want to figure out the best type of cabinet to make so things can be organized nicely behind closed doors. This is all very exciting. So much information out there, it can get overwhelming for sure.</p> Stephanie, as always the soli…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2015-10-04:2900167:Comment:7660382015-10-04T04:08:48.043ZJay Boutwellhttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/JayBoutwell
<p>Stephanie, as always the solid wood is the better way to go on anything involving cabinets adn especially now that all the veneer is so thin. Even the ply wood that I buy from a cabinet supply house has become so thin that there is no room for any sanding at all and you often find chatter marks all over the ply an sometime not until you apply the finish. It has caused me to go to making hard wood panels for anything that you can see by eye after cabinet installation. I don't mind doing…</p>
<p>Stephanie, as always the solid wood is the better way to go on anything involving cabinets adn especially now that all the veneer is so thin. Even the ply wood that I buy from a cabinet supply house has become so thin that there is no room for any sanding at all and you often find chatter marks all over the ply an sometime not until you apply the finish. It has caused me to go to making hard wood panels for anything that you can see by eye after cabinet installation. I don't mind doing this as I only build high end cabinets anyway and never use the ply slab for doors. It is just an alternative to the higher priced doors made of solid wood. Think of it this was you are actually adding value to your home building the better cabinets.</p>
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<p>As far as building larger cabients it is not a bad idea in most instances as you get more storage and evey a better looking cabinet with very little added cost. I often build the upper cabinets out to 14 inches as some of the ladies now have larger plates and platters that they can not store in a 12 inch deep cabinet. The only real restriction is building the upper too deep and cause you problems reaching the back of the counter.</p>
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<p>One of the last large cabinet jobs that I did was a total custom with even extending some of the cabinets outward to change the total appearance of the kitchen and there has been times when I have mixed tall cabinets with shorter cabinets just for the look of the kitchen. Some of these have been in multi-million dollar homes where eveything is determined by designers. Full height cabinets are also a good idea when you can take advantage of room. </p>
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<p>A good instance where you can add not only convience but lool is the cabinets over the refrig. In the job above that I was talking about I built the cabinet over the refrig to be 24 inches deep and then added a pull out in it where everything came out the the front of the refig where you could access it with out using a step ladder. The front has two doors attached to it so it looks like a double door cabinet but was actually a pull out.</p>
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<p>If you get to the point of rebuilding your kitchen I would be willing to look at photos of your layout and suggest to you some of the finer things that I have learned in building high end cabinets for the past quarter century. All I would need is measurments and photos.</p>
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<p>As for a jointer I do not use one very often as a person should be able to adjust and fine tune the table saw to do cut straight enought to glue up right off the saw table. If I recall right you were having trouble with the saw adjustment and wondering if you ever got the saw straightened out./ <br/><cite>Stephanie H said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://kregjig.ning.com/forum/topics/building-flat-panel-doors-on-a-router-table?commentId=2900167%3AComment%3A765934&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2900167Comment765934"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>This is very helpful. If I use plywood, I will not have to buy a jointer so soon. I was planning on buying one, thinking I would be gluing up pieces of wood to make the doors. I am also wondering the advantages and disadvantages of using solid wood vs plywood, which I know can have tear-out when you are cutting it on the table saw? I plan on making cabinets for the new laundry room first. That way I will be able to learn from all of my mistakes before I make the "better" cabinets for the kitchen extension. I was measuring my current cabinets with the double doors and they are 39 wide, 31 tall and 12 inches deep. For the backroom I was wanting to make them deeper to accommodate appliances, etc that I do not use all the time. I was thinking 18 inches deep. Basically making floor to ceiling cabinets. Some of the items are heavy and with making bigger cabinets, that would add weight also. My second thought was making cabinets with a counter and then overhead cabinets, just like in the kitchen. Any thoughts as to possible disadvantages to making bigger/deeper cabinets? I am torn in which way I want to go with this. I want to go into this project knowing that what I am doing makes sense vs find out after I have started that I have made a bad choice and have to start over along with throwing away money. So many choices. Your thoughts and time are really appreciated.</p>
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</blockquote> This is very helpful. If I u…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2015-10-04:2900167:Comment:7659342015-10-04T03:36:00.706ZStephanie Hhttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/StephanieH
<p>This is very helpful. If I use plywood, I will not have to buy a jointer so soon. I was planning on buying one, thinking I would be gluing up pieces of wood to make the doors. I am also wondering the advantages and disadvantages of using solid wood vs plywood, which I know can have tear-out when you are cutting it on the table saw? I plan on making cabinets for the new laundry room first. That way I will be able to learn from all of my mistakes before I make the "better" cabinets for…</p>
<p>This is very helpful. If I use plywood, I will not have to buy a jointer so soon. I was planning on buying one, thinking I would be gluing up pieces of wood to make the doors. I am also wondering the advantages and disadvantages of using solid wood vs plywood, which I know can have tear-out when you are cutting it on the table saw? I plan on making cabinets for the new laundry room first. That way I will be able to learn from all of my mistakes before I make the "better" cabinets for the kitchen extension. I was measuring my current cabinets with the double doors and they are 39 wide, 31 tall and 12 inches deep. For the backroom I was wanting to make them deeper to accommodate appliances, etc that I do not use all the time. I was thinking 18 inches deep. Basically making floor to ceiling cabinets. Some of the items are heavy and with making bigger cabinets, that would add weight also. My second thought was making cabinets with a counter and then overhead cabinets, just like in the kitchen. Any thoughts as to possible disadvantages to making bigger/deeper cabinets? I am torn in which way I want to go with this. I want to go into this project knowing that what I am doing makes sense vs find out after I have started that I have made a bad choice and have to start over along with throwing away money. So many choices. Your thoughts and time are really appreciated.</p> Hi Stephanie, Not a problem…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2015-10-04:2900167:Comment:7661912015-10-04T03:16:04.923ZJay Boutwellhttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/JayBoutwell
<p>Hi Stephanie, Not a problem what you have is what is known as "slab doors" which are flat 3/4" panels of wood. What these look like are glued up pieces of lumber and they do look like they are red oak with a clear coat. The hinges are European and appear to be 1/2" inch overlay meaning that they are 1/2" larger that he opening of your cabinets. They are easy to build and can actually be made using 3/4" red oak plywood or other species of wood. </p>
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<p>To determine the size…</p>
<p>Hi Stephanie, Not a problem what you have is what is known as "slab doors" which are flat 3/4" panels of wood. What these look like are glued up pieces of lumber and they do look like they are red oak with a clear coat. The hinges are European and appear to be 1/2" inch overlay meaning that they are 1/2" larger that he opening of your cabinets. They are easy to build and can actually be made using 3/4" red oak plywood or other species of wood. </p>
<p></p>
<p>To determine the size measure the openings both height and width and cut your panel one inch larger that the openings. Example: a opening that is 20 wide and 30 inches high you would cut the panel to be 21 inches wide and 31 inches high.</p>
<p></p>
<p>They have what looks to be a 3/8 bull nose around the edges. </p>
<p> You can get the exact same look by glue up of a panel using strips of red oak glued on edge to edge and then cut them down to size and then using a 3/8 bull nose bit in a router to cut the rounded edged on the front side only. Sand and bore for the European Hinges, finish with your preference as to color and hang on the cabinet stiles.</p>
<p> The closest look to red oak would be ash which I know that in your area is just as expensive as the oak.</p>
<p></p>
<p>If you use plywood then you will have to think about edge banding to hide the edge grain of the plywood. Use this strips of red oak ripped at 1/4 inch think and or use the iron on tape that is red oak species.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I also have a large write up about European hinges on here too. Type in European hinges in the search bar of the Kreg Jig community. I also have a jig that I made that is easy to build and will help you add the Hinges.</p>
<p></p>
<p>In your area the best area for hinges is National builders hardware in Portland. Lot less money that Rocklers or other places. What you would be looking for is 1/2 over lay face frame hinges. Pick a degree opening of at least 120 degrees.</p>
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<p>Hope this helps you with your questions. Contact me if it does not. have a good weekend.</p> I guess I do not know all the…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2015-10-04:2900167:Comment:7661872015-10-04T02:06:23.009ZStephanie Hhttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/StephanieH
<p>I guess I do not know all the correct terms. Attached are what my kitchen cabinets look like. They don't have stiles and rails. I want to duplicate them to make more for the extension area of my kitchen. They are made of Oak, but I don't really need to spend that kind of money. I have heard that there are other species of wood that look close enough. Anyway, I am looking to understand how to make this type of door and also how to figure out the dimensions of the pieces of boards I need…</p>
<p>I guess I do not know all the correct terms. Attached are what my kitchen cabinets look like. They don't have stiles and rails. I want to duplicate them to make more for the extension area of my kitchen. They are made of Oak, but I don't really need to spend that kind of money. I have heard that there are other species of wood that look close enough. Anyway, I am looking to understand how to make this type of door and also how to figure out the dimensions of the pieces of boards I need to cut in order for everything to come together. I hope I am making sense.</p> Jay Boutwell said:
Hi Steph…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2015-10-04:2900167:Comment:7661842015-10-04T01:57:37.312ZStephanie Hhttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/StephanieH
<p><br></br> <br></br> <cite>Jay Boutwell said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://kregjig.ning.com/forum/topics/building-flat-panel-doors-on-a-router-table?commentId=2900167%3AComment%3A765928&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2900167Comment765928"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Hi Stephanie, nice hearing from you. So you are wanting to learn how to build cabinet doors. I have a link both here on the Kreg Community and also on You Tube that shows a link to building arched raised panels doors. …</p>
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<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Jay Boutwell said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://kregjig.ning.com/forum/topics/building-flat-panel-doors-on-a-router-table?commentId=2900167%3AComment%3A765928&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2900167Comment765928"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Hi Stephanie, nice hearing from you. So you are wanting to learn how to build cabinet doors. I have a link both here on the Kreg Community and also on You Tube that shows a link to building arched raised panels doors. All you have to do to make the flat panel doors is to disregard the parts about the raised panel and just cut all the rails and stiles to 2 and 7/16 " in width. Follow the remainder of the directions and photos. Although the cutter cuts a 1/4" wide grove for the panel you can insert a ply wood panel however you should look for the full 1/4" thick plywood. I would suggest that you glue up solid 1/4" thick panel as you will have a better door in the long run. Here is my link: <a rel="nofollow" href="http://youtu.be/DLcSp6JkSME">http://youtu.be/DLcSp6JkSME</a></p>
<p></p>
<p>These are all made on a router table and bits from "CMT" sold by Marc Sommerfeld. He has now a new set of bits that cut the pattern (long groove in the rails and stiles) that do not tear out the wood on the face side of the pattern requiring you to do a lot of sanding. These are his own patented bits and are the best bits to use. He did have some of the old CMT bits that he is offering on a clearance out of his inventory.</p>
<p></p>
<p>They are great bits of which I have many CMT brand bits. They are priced at $59.90 regularly at $89.90. This is for the cope bit and the pattern bit which cuts the groove and pattern on the stiles and rails. He offers you free shipping on the set for an additional savings. ( I sound like a salesman don't I ? I just know of a good deal and will gladly pass on the information to you and others out there who might read the post.) I have owned these bits for over 25 years and they still perform great however I up graded to the no chip out set that he has patented a couple years ago so I can tell you that these are great bits,</p>
<p> You can reach the sales catalogue by internet at : <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.sommerfieldtools.com">www.sommerfieldtools.com</a> or toll free at: 1-888-228-9268. If you call ask for Patricia and tell her that I referred you and she will send you a free catalogue. </p>
<p></p>
<p>In the catalogue both on line and in the catalogue, Marc has described how to build the arch raised panel door. Just change the figuring from using the 1/2" deep groove to 3/8" if you use the CMT bits (they cut 3/8 deep groove and the no tear out bits that he currently is selling cuts a 1/2" deep grove. This makes a difference when figuring the door part sizes. You can find this on page 30 in the catalogue both on line and in hard cover.</p>
<p></p>
<p>For more instruction go to You Tube and type in sommerfeld tool and look at all the video that Marc has added. You will find one showing you step by step how to build the door as well as other styles such as Shaker and even the mini doors. I build using the same techniques as does Marc and is why I use his cabinet tools and can tell you that you can not go wrong with any of his tools. </p>
<p>Let me know if I can be of any more help as I will gladly help you as well as any others whom might read this.</p>
<p></p>
<p> </p>
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</blockquote> Hi Stephanie, nice hearing fr…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2015-10-04:2900167:Comment:7659282015-10-04T00:42:41.421ZJay Boutwellhttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/JayBoutwell
<p>Hi Stephanie, nice hearing from you. So you are wanting to learn how to build cabinet doors. I have a link both here on the Kreg Community and also on You Tube that shows a link to building arched raised panels doors. All you have to do to make the flat panel doors is to disregard the parts about the raised panel and just cut all the rails and stiles to 2 and 7/16 " in width. Follow the remainder of the directions and photos. Although the cutter cuts a 1/4" wide grove for the panel you…</p>
<p>Hi Stephanie, nice hearing from you. So you are wanting to learn how to build cabinet doors. I have a link both here on the Kreg Community and also on You Tube that shows a link to building arched raised panels doors. All you have to do to make the flat panel doors is to disregard the parts about the raised panel and just cut all the rails and stiles to 2 and 7/16 " in width. Follow the remainder of the directions and photos. Although the cutter cuts a 1/4" wide grove for the panel you can insert a ply wood panel however you should look for the full 1/4" thick plywood. I would suggest that you glue up solid 1/4" thick panel as you will have a better door in the long run. Here is my link: <a href="http://youtu.be/DLcSp6JkSME">http://youtu.be/DLcSp6JkSME</a></p>
<p></p>
<p>These are all made on a router table and bits from "CMT" sold by Marc Sommerfeld. He has now a new set of bits that cut the pattern (long groove in the rails and stiles) that do not tear out the wood on the face side of the pattern requiring you to do a lot of sanding. These are his own patented bits and are the best bits to use. He did have some of the old CMT bits that he is offering on a clearance out of his inventory.</p>
<p></p>
<p>They are great bits of which I have many CMT brand bits. They are priced at $59.90 regularly at $89.90. This is for the cope bit and the pattern bit which cuts the groove and pattern on the stiles and rails. He offers you free shipping on the set for an additional savings. ( I sound like a salesman don't I ? I just know of a good deal and will gladly pass on the information to you and others out there who might read the post.) I have owned these bits for over 25 years and they still perform great however I up graded to the no chip out set that he has patented a couple years ago so I can tell you that these are great bits,</p>
<p> You can reach the sales catalogue by internet at : <a href="http://www.sommerfieldtools.com">www.sommerfieldtools.com</a> or toll free at: 1-888-228-9268. If you call ask for Patricia and tell her that I referred you and she will send you a free catalogue. </p>
<p></p>
<p>In the catalogue both on line and in the catalogue, Marc has described how to build the arch raised panel door. Just change the figuring from using the 1/2" deep groove to 3/8" if you use the CMT bits (they cut 3/8 deep groove and the no tear out bits that he currently is selling cuts a 1/2" deep grove. This makes a difference when figuring the door part sizes. You can find this on page 30 in the catalogue both on line and in hard cover.</p>
<p></p>
<p>For more instruction go to You Tube and type in sommerfeld tool and look at all the video that Marc has added. You will find one showing you step by step how to build the door as well as other styles such as Shaker and even the mini doors. I build using the same techniques as does Marc and is why I use his cabinet tools and can tell you that you can not go wrong with any of his tools. </p>
<p>Let me know if I can be of any more help as I will gladly help you as well as any others whom might read this.</p>
<p></p>
<p> </p> Jay,
Can you repost your sli…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2015-10-03:2900167:Comment:7660212015-10-03T18:55:12.353ZStephanie Hhttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/StephanieH
<p>Jay,</p>
<p></p>
<p>Can you repost your slideshow? Hopefully you can. I am trying to figure out/learn how to make flat panel cabinet doors. Much appreciated.</p>
<p>Jay,</p>
<p></p>
<p>Can you repost your slideshow? Hopefully you can. I am trying to figure out/learn how to make flat panel cabinet doors. Much appreciated.</p> Hi Russ, Thank you for your…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2014-09-25:2900167:Comment:6558872014-09-25T17:53:58.316ZJay Boutwellhttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/JayBoutwell
<p><br></br> Hi Russ, Thank you for your comments. Yes I know that there are some rail stile bits that have came out with changeable groove thickness. I have avoided purchasing one so far so I do not have any direct knowledge about them. The main reason is that I do not worry about having to change the stile and rail pattern groove thickness as I will only use the full 1/4 inch thick plywood. I have access to it and it is stocked at the hardwood dealer that I buy from. I will on occasion …</p>
<p><br/> Hi Russ, Thank you for your comments. Yes I know that there are some rail stile bits that have came out with changeable groove thickness. I have avoided purchasing one so far so I do not have any direct knowledge about them. The main reason is that I do not worry about having to change the stile and rail pattern groove thickness as I will only use the full 1/4 inch thick plywood. I have access to it and it is stocked at the hardwood dealer that I buy from. I will on occasion make my own flat panels from glue ups but since it is not my favorite door I avoid making them as much as I can. I feel that anything thinner than a 1/4 inch thickness is too thin for panels anyway. The panels tend to flex in the centers when they are opened and closed and especially the tall and or wide doors. Since I use 13/16" thick rail and stile stock increasing the rail stile groove makes the groove material too thin and break out is the normal thing to expect. You and I both know that the floating panels carry a lot of energy in the movement of the door being opened and closed and that energy will destroy a door that is not strong enough. Because of this fact the panel groove size and placement in the stile rail plays an important part.</p>
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<p>I have seen Frank Klauz's table sawn panels and his method and I do agree that it is a sweet system. He is truly a master at the craft and very ingenious at his work. I do like to see videos of his work.</p>
<p> I have cut several panels on the table saw for special applications like in furniture however not too many seem to have an appeal for them for larger cabinets</p>
<p>Customers in my area tend to prefer the panels that have either ogee or some kind of curvature to the cuts. The ones who do not will go for the "shaker" look and then I will cut the door stile and rails on the table saw making them a tendon joint and they will then often have a groove that is larger that 1/4 inch but not above a 3/8 inch groove. Anything above that will require me to increase the rail stile stock to 7/8 inch thickness. I try to avoid plywood panels in these doors and make my own using glue ups.</p>
<p>Again thanks for your input as I always enjoy talking cabinet making and is do value your knowledge. <br/> <cite>Russ Haynes said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://kregjig.ning.com/forum/topics/building-flat-panel-doors-on-a-router-table?commentId=2900167%3AComment%3A651880&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2900167Comment651880"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Jay -- awesome as always but I do have to point out that some router bit sets ARE adjustable, others aren't. Simple sets are usually not adjustable but better sets are. For example, the Freud rail and stile bit sets are adjustable for panel thickness. I use primarily <a href="http://www.rockler.com/freud-97-260-3-piece-door-set?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PL&sid=V9146&gclid=CNyPw-y25sACFUVo7AodPAUAYQ" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">the Freud 97-260</a> set for my doors and have adjusted the thickness of the panel groove from 1/4" up to 3/8", although I'm not sure of the min and max sizes for the panel groove. Many of Freud's 2-piece rail and stile bit sets are likewise adjustable.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I also like the table saw method for doing these types of doors. Even more so after I was lucky enough to attend the WWIA conference over the weekend and saw Frank Klauz's table saw jig for doing raised panels at the table saw. It cuts a perfect 7-degree bevel to raise the panels and it took him about 45 seconds per door panel. Wow. </p>
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</blockquote> Jay -- awesome as always but…tag:kregjig.ning.com,2014-09-16:2900167:Comment:6518802014-09-16T19:07:09.958ZRuss Hayneshttps://kregjig.ning.com/profile/RussHaynes
<p>Jay -- awesome as always but I do have to point out that some router bit sets ARE adjustable, others aren't. Simple sets are usually not adjustable but better sets are. For example, the Freud rail and stile bit sets are adjustable for panel thickness. I use primarily…</p>
<p>Jay -- awesome as always but I do have to point out that some router bit sets ARE adjustable, others aren't. Simple sets are usually not adjustable but better sets are. For example, the Freud rail and stile bit sets are adjustable for panel thickness. I use primarily <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.rockler.com/freud-97-260-3-piece-door-set?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_term=&utm_content=pla&utm_campaign=PL&sid=V9146&gclid=CNyPw-y25sACFUVo7AodPAUAYQ" target="_blank">the Freud 97-260</a> set for my doors and have adjusted the thickness of the panel groove from 1/4" up to 3/8", although I'm not sure of the min and max sizes for the panel groove. Many of Freud's 2-piece rail and stile bit sets are likewise adjustable.</p>
<p></p>
<p>I also like the table saw method for doing these types of doors. Even more so after I was lucky enough to attend the WWIA conference over the weekend and saw Frank Klauz's table saw jig for doing raised panels at the table saw. It cuts a perfect 7-degree bevel to raise the panels and it took him about 45 seconds per door panel. Wow. </p>